This from Martin Nowak:
8391 Archer Ave. I arrived when crews were venting the roof. I believe that’s what I heard but couldn’t see well. After getting some videos of apparatus arriving, I relocated to take pictures. Here are some photos I took with my phone.These were the departments that I saw on scene; Willow Springs, Roberts Park, Bridgeview (416 is OOS using 415 “1986 KME/Darley”, Forest View, Brookfield (I believe they returned because I didn’t see their ambulance after they arrived.) Westmont, Western Springs, Tri-State, Pleasantview, Lemont, and Lagrange Park. I was told Bedford Park Engine 711 was there, but didn’t get a chance to see them.
Martin Nowak photo
Martin Nowak photo
Martin Nowak photo
Martin Nowak photo
Martin Nowak photo
#1 by Brian on September 26, 2013 - 7:42 PM
While the large amount of ambos may seem out of hand but with rehab and rit assigned ambos, five is understandable. On a box alarm, that would give you a still ambo, full-still ambo and box ambo with the other two coming in and being assigned a job. Could resources be better utilized, possibly but it does make sense.
#2 by Tom Foley on September 25, 2013 - 11:01 PM
Those are all great comments. Much appreciate the conversation! Great points about some of the engine companies only having 2-3 ff’s on an engine.
I would never want to propose reducing staffing at a fire where it became dangerous for the first responders.
As noted before, especially in MABAS10 (which is where I grew up), resources are spread thin as it is. My worry is tying up so many units that you’re spread even thinner. Yes, I’m well aware of change of quarters and how that works, but unless you are doing callbacks, those change of quarters requests are coming from somewhere… and often times places that are already thin.
It’s not the first major incident I’m most concerned about. It’s the off chance that multiple major incidents occur at the same time with resources spread thin to start with.
Lastly, there is the fiscal side. It’s expensive to run all this equipment. I mostly agree with the strategy in place now, because your resources are limited. Meaning, if you need 5 guys for a company for a fire, then send a truck with 5 guys. But, we know the reality is often minimal staffing which makes bringing that ambulance essential in case there is an ambulance call… you can then separate the company.
I am most appreciative of the first responders and if I’m ever in a situation to need services, the systems in today’s fire department do work.
Thank you all who serve our communities!
#3 by Jim on October 5, 2013 - 12:35 AM
About your comment about another major incident happening while another one is occurring. That’s the beauty of MABAS they have box cards that are a bunch of “what ifs ” scenarios . If another structure fire happened in that immediate you would have Orland, Palos, Lockport, etc and MABAS 21, 10 it’s all about the
Mutual aid
#4 by Jim on September 25, 2013 - 10:13 PM
Robert,
You beat me to it. Many if not most ambulances become part of the engine or truck company. If not the manning of those 9 engines would be a max of 27. Still less than a Chicago still alarm.
#5 by Robert on September 25, 2013 - 6:31 PM
Jim and Tom, the place was also for rent. And I agree with you on sending a certain number of ambulances but you need to remember that some of those paramedics also work along side the engine crew because engines arent always fully staffed. Ex 2-3 ff’s on an engine.
#6 by Tom Foley on September 25, 2013 - 12:39 AM
@Jim
One of my solutions is not to send as many ambulances. Ambulance runs generally make up for most of a department’s calls.
Most of our suburban firefighters are cross-trained paramedics. Taking that La Grange fire that had 5 ambulances and 9 engines… tell me where the need to have 5 ambulances on scene is valuable? I think the IC should help to make the decision when an alarm is raised whether or not an ambulance needs to be tied up and/or is needed. It could be multi-casualtity incident and they need more than 5. It could be an abandoned home and maybe you just have 2 ambos on the scene for the “what if” scenario.
There is enough cross-training that tying up extra ambos doesn’t make sense. By all means, call them in if you need them, but don’t just bring in a bunch of ambos because the card calls for them. If something happens on the scene, the cross-training of firefighters should be able to handle a situation until extra resources arrive, provided the engines have ALS and/or BLS resources.
Back to the Willow Springs fire that seemed to happen at night without anyone present, how many ambulances were part of this scene? I don’t have the answer, but I’m thinking only 2 should have been at the scene.
#7 by Jim on September 27, 2013 - 3:22 PM
Burbank, Brookfield, and Roberts Park were the 3 ambulances on scene
#8 by Jim on September 24, 2013 - 5:35 AM
If you compare a suburban department’s response, to the city, most won’t get the equivalent manpower to a still alarm in the city. What does the city get on a full still 35-40 guys? Most places that is a 2-11 or 3-11. I’m not bashing the city at all, I’m just pointing out in order to get those resources in the suburbs you have to escalate the alarm.
#9 by Jim on September 24, 2013 - 5:26 AM
Tom,
What is your solution for this? As department’s resources are spread thin, most have no other option. Welcome to the today’s fire service.
#10 by Tom Foley on September 23, 2013 - 10:34 PM
@Jim
Do you think the box was struck because of proximity to the gas station? (Apologies for the arm-chair quarterbacking…)
I’ve said it before, I fully support mutual aide, but some of what’s going on around MABAS10 is ridiculous. Generally speaking, MABAS10 departments are already thin. Taking as many resources as they often do and then making other departments change quarters really spreads it thin.
I sincerely hope it doesn’t take multiple incidents occuring at the same time ending in tragedies to underscore why tying up as many companies really spreads MABAS10 thin.
There was some interesting discussion on the LaGrange incident just under a year ago that went to a 3-11: http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2012/12/fatal-fire-in-lagrange-12-8-12/
I’m all for safety and making sure you have enough resources on scene. I’m not afraid to admit arm-chair quarterbacking. But it just seems like you are really stretching resources should there end up being another active incident in the same coverage area.
#11 by Jim on September 23, 2013 - 9:54 PM
I still have the pics I forgot to upload.. And yes Brookfield 401 and there ambulance were staged a half a block south of Nolton avenue at the citgo with ambulance 32 of RP. The chief was dumb to pull a box and send 12+ departments to a small fire
#12 by FFEMT on September 21, 2013 - 3:43 AM
Jim…not sure totals, but 524 and 534 each do about 10-12 calls per day. This makes them BY FAR the two busiest companies in MABAS 10.
#13 by Dan on September 20, 2013 - 9:12 PM
Back in the day, the Villages of Justice and Willow Springs would have been smart to create a combined fire protection district among the two departments.
#14 by Jim on September 20, 2013 - 4:42 PM
How many ems runs does Tristate currently have per year? How many fire runs per year?
#15 by FF/PM MABAS 21 on September 20, 2013 - 1:17 PM
First of all, it’s quite a shame that retalitory politics in Willow Springs has disbanded a decent department filled with some experienced and talented personnel! Thank you WSFD for your professional working relationship over the years and good luck to everyone with your future endeavors!
Now, one would hope that Tri-State would hire 6 more medics to staff a much needed 3rd ambo, which was needed prior to all of this. Roberts Park is already burdened with a heavy EMS workload especially when they are hit with multiple calls in their district, therefore they rightfully shouldn’t be the scapegoat for Tri-State’s inability to provide adequate services and blatently abuse mutual aid. This would trickle down to all of the surrounding departments/districts in MABAS 21 further taxing these understaffed busy departments/districts by increasing their call volumes.
#16 by Robert on September 20, 2013 - 4:15 PM
I agree, hopefully they will throw their reserve ambulance or whichever one that isnt staffed at Willow Springs and staff it.
#17 by Mike on September 20, 2013 - 8:58 AM
Tri – State is closing station 4 and will be moving the personal to Willow Springs. Tri- State has enough problems I can’t believe Willow Spring signed on to this. Neighboring department get ready for a lot of mutual aid to Tri-State especially your ambulances .
#18 by Robert on September 20, 2013 - 10:46 AM
Roberts Park will probably be the one for ems calls in Willow Springs.
#19 by Jim on September 23, 2013 - 10:29 PM
RP is extremely busy as it is. I don’t think that station on 79th can handle covering justice and willow because they always seemed to be getting toned out
#20 by FFEMT on September 19, 2013 - 4:07 AM
Two things to keep in mind…a PLVW and WSFD merger was strongly discussed last year and ended VERY badly, so I think following that PLVW wanted nothing to do with it. Also, most of the Willow Springs personnel are part time and even if they were offered full time positions from TSFPD, I doubt many would leave their respective departments.
#21 by Robert on September 18, 2013 - 11:26 PM
I agree with you on that but I wouldnt keep all the ffs from Willow Springs. Just how I would run things. I would add a few new faces amd spread them between the stations
#22 by Tom Foley on September 18, 2013 - 11:19 PM
From one Tom to another, I think your idea is sound if it was split.
For coverage and timely responses, I sure hope Tri-State would use the Willow Springs house.
– It’s 6.8 miles to Archer & Willow Springs road from the Tri-State Darien station.
– It’s 3.85 miles from their Burr Ridge station
– And 4.15 miles from their Willow Brook Station
Conversely,
– It’s 1.96 miles from Pleasantview’s Wolf Rd. house.
– It’s 4.11 miles from Pleasantview’s LaGrange Highland’s house.
– And 4.57 miles from Pleasantview’s Hodgkins house.
For Robert’s Park…
– It’s 2.29 miles from their Archer station
– And 4.20 miles from their Roberts Rd. station
(Mapquest directions used. Granted, Archer and Willow Springs Rd. aren’t the “center” of Willow Springs… but this is almost the halfway point of the two recent fires.)
If one entity were to take over, I think it fits Pleasantview a little better… but only if they were able to have some sort of staffing at the Willow Springs station.
If nothing else, this gives us something to watch to see how it all pans out… but I just don’t get the Tri-State decision.
#23 by Tom on September 18, 2013 - 8:48 PM
Tri-State makes no sense whatsoever
#24 by Tom on September 18, 2013 - 8:47 PM
I think splitting into r.p and pleasantview would make sense. Pleasantview north of the canal, Roberts Park south of the canal. Split up the Willow Springs fireman between r.p. station 2 and Pleasantview station on wolf rd. Both stations are right down the street from the respective Willow Springs neighboorhoods.
#25 by Martin Nowak on September 18, 2013 - 7:03 PM
I drove past the Park district one. That was a loss. What am I saying. It was boarded up for so many years, probably not being used for anything. But there was a Willow Springs cop watching over it. So no pictures from me on it. But I agree with Robert, I had the same feelings on what if RP took over Willow Springs. I always thought it would have had black over red with #33’s. One can dream. I dont get how you buy a Police Department almost 10 new units and contract the FD. But whatever, the town seems to be the same like always.
#26 by Robert on September 18, 2013 - 5:07 PM
Roberts Park and Pleasantview didnt want to do half and half from what I remember. I would have liked to see what RP Station3 would have been, the rigs they would run out of there.
#27 by Tom Foley on September 18, 2013 - 11:12 AM
Very interesting.
In the past, there were some rumblings about Roberts Park taking over and also Pleasantview. Not sure were those talks went and it would seem they are better located than TriState.
Is Tri-State just taking over the manpower? Will they be taking over the Willow Springs rigs? I think they have 2 engines, 2 ambulances, a boat, and maybe a utility vehicle.
That would explain why in the Sun Times and Trib articles on the fire that TriState seemed to be the “spokesperson” for the fire rather than Willow Springs.
#28 by Robert on September 18, 2013 - 10:37 AM
So no more Willow Springs fire?
#29 by Joe Public on September 18, 2013 - 9:46 AM
The Village of Willow Springs Board has contracted fire service through Tri-State Fire Protection District as of October 1, 2013.
#30 by Tom Foley on September 17, 2013 - 9:15 PM
I don’t believe Willow Springs has too many working fires. They had one a few days ago at a Park District-owned building: http://lagrange.suntimes.com/news/fire-WYD-09132013:article