This from Mike Lopina:
While at O’Hare (ORD) for annual ARFF & Haz-Mat training, I was able to capture some rigs in between evolutions. 5-3-1 carries a Zumro tent, HVAC equipment for the Zumro & some decon equipment and is based at ORD Rescue Station 1. 8-8-1A is currently housed at the AMC building at ORD. 6-5-7S (Spare), Engine 9 & the new 2-7-8 were at the training facility for Zumro tent set up training. 6-5-T is the training rig for the pit and is a 1988 Oshkosh T-3000 crash rig. 2-9-8 is the training officer for ORD and 2-9-12 is currently the coordinator for the live fire simulators. Also attached is Lockport Rescue 6 getting ready to attack a fire in the Pit and Orland Engine 8 (Reserve) pumping handlines for the Pit and the Wheel/Brake/Interior simulator.Mike Lopina
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
Mike Lopina photo
#1 by Mike Mc on October 28, 2013 - 11:37 AM
Thanks for the clarificaton on Battalion 6A. I was misinformed. Wouldn’t it make more sense to move 2-7-8 to Midway, where there is not a buggy driver to assist in communications?
They’ve been called buggy drivers for about 150 years. Even when Fire Commissioner Quinn had captains drive him, and they were really aides, they were still called buggy drivers.
My point on Chicago cold boxes is that they should be reduced to a two engine and two truck response. In the age of cell phones, there is no longer a need to have four engines and two trucks respond to an automatic alarm at a hospital or a fire alarm box pulled outside of a theater. The fire alarm office would immediately strike a still and box if there was just one phone call. The still alarm is a more than adequate precautionary response. It is also the same response assigned to a pulled alarm at a school.
#2 by Scott on October 27, 2013 - 11:42 PM
RE: Batt 6 buggy driver… It was my understanding the main reason the driver is necessary do to the large amount of comm’s that must be done during an incident once they alarm is dispatched. Too much for a single person to do with multiple radios, planning and trying to navigate the field at the same time. In RE: Batt 16, yes, he’s got the field, but he is still a “City Proper” Chief. The lead crash truck at Midway I had been told does most of the comm’s.
#3 by Drew Smith on October 27, 2013 - 9:36 PM
When FDNY removed many of their street boxes nearly two decades ago their stats showed that of the more than 160,000 alarms in a year, all but about 400 had a phone call with them. Ask any dispatcher at a regional center and they will tell you that just about anything that grabs the public’s eye results in several calls to 9-1-1, most with conflicting info as to exact location and the gravity of the situation. The good news is that while we rarely know exactly what is going on we do know that is usually means some kind of work for the companies.
As for the issue of buggy drivers, here’s my two-cents:
First, stop calling them buggy drivers. Not to worship Phoenix (AZ) but they call them Field Incident Techs and they are usually captains on the list to become BCs. They have specific duties beyond driving and there is a training program and job description. I would think such a program would help sell the need. Even in the horse and buggy era the driver needed to do two important tasks: Relocate the buggy and horse and operate the street box to request extra alarms.
Second, to the best of my knowledge the FAA does not have a rule about not leaving the vehicle unattended. We regularly leave a vehicle on the field without anyone inside at Chicago Executive Airport. If we are cleared to operate on the field that area is usually shut down until the incident is over. I was told years ago that the reason the battalion at ORD has a driver is because of the need to work two radios while driving: One radio for the Air traffic control tower (for airfield clearances) and one for the companies/dispatch/ORD emergency center.
#4 by Bill Post on October 27, 2013 - 6:56 PM
Mike Mc speaking about box alarms at schools I remember that back up until the mid 1960;s a “check the box” alarm used to get an Engine, Truck and a Battalion Chief until late 1966/early 1967 and then they cut the response to only an Engine company.
The most common type of pull box alarm in my neighbor hood and many others were the Gamewell Pull Boxes that were in front of each school and when I had move into my area in mid 1966 a one ,one and one response on a pull box was the normal practice. I was wondering if that response was for only “after school hours” as a one ,one and one response was less then a full still alarm.
By 1967 when the “check the box alarms” had the response reduced to one Engine company, in the busier areas that had Fog Pressure Units assigned they would only send a single Fog Pressure company to the “check the boxes” in those areas.
The use of Fog Pressure units were at their height at the time when there were 12 of them in service ,which didn’t include the ones that were assigned to Snorkel Squads 1,2 and 3. Within a year or two after that Fog Pressures started being relocated and taken out of service as the Fire Department started making manpower reductions and Engine companies started getting new rigs put in service with their own booster tanks.
#5 by Mike Mc on October 23, 2013 - 4:22 PM
Speaking of buggies and airports. If I am not mistaken, Battalion 6 is the only battalion in the city to have a buggy driver. The rationale being that a vehicle can not be left unattended on an airfield. I always wondered why the FAA allows Battalion 16 to operate without a buggy driver. Yes, the vehicle faces 63rd Street and the battalion encompasses more than just the airport. But seriously, the buggy would respond with the rescue (crash) rigs and if it was not for Midway, the 16th Battalion would probably not exist. It seems like a matter of interpreting the strict letter of the policy and not the real world facts. Everyone knows that the buggy is going to be left unattended on the tarmac in the event of a major incident.
The FDNY fought to keep their buggy drivers. Safety was a major factor cited. I always thought that Local 2 was a little quick to give them up. In my humble opinion, the communication vans never lived up to expectations. They simply arrive too late on most working fires. Having the battalion chief scan two radio frequencies simultaneously always struck me as having the potential for an unfortunate outcome.
Bill Post: Yes, I am aware that the Port Authority has the airports in the New York and Newark areas. That is precisely my point regarding Chicago’s still and box standbys. Most, if not all, of the other major airports do not ask for outside assistance for standbys (at least the more routine ones). They are self contained. The CFD should at least review the still and box standby policy, which is over 50 years old now.
Then maybe they could review the cold box policy, which is over a century old. No one envisioned cell phones after the Iroquis Theater fire. Do you think maybe the fire alarm office would get a phone call or two if there was a fire in a hosptial, theater, or assisted living facitlity today?
They used to have a cold box for school alarms. It did not take long for them to downgrade it to a still alarm. They were too frequent. Why not the same for cold boxes?
#6 by tom sullivan on October 17, 2013 - 9:16 PM
to continue with a run by on battalion buggies and responses,, by the late 60’s until 1980 the battalions were responding on an ever increasing number and variety of runs. besides fire responses, which included 2 chiefs on “cold” box alarms, automatic and water flow alarms, they were taking washdowns, pin ins, all types of ambulance runs (when an ambulance wasn’t close), water leaks, gas “investigations”, etc. buggies carried a variety of tools, pipe wrenches, plugs, axe, bar. other runs were given at the discretion of the fao, some were very unusual situations ! the result was that many battalions were doing over 20 runs a day, besides the routine administrative work, drills, inspections, etc. after 1980 the responses were cut back to about what it is today. of course with the advent of RIT, safety chief, plans, multiple chiefs on high – rise responses, etc. the run numbers are climbing. since the loss of battalion drivers around 1989 / 90 the actual work load has increased, the drivers handled many of the routine record keeping and misc. work of the battalion. the lack of a driver is most pronounced at a working incident, they were the second set of eyes and ears for the chief. some of the chief and driver teams were legendary !
#7 by Bill Post on October 17, 2013 - 7:02 PM
Phil that must have been quite an adventure to see them pull the old 10th Battalion Buggy out of the water. I remember that incident and that the 10th had been using a 1968 Ford Station Wagon buggy. Do you remember that the Battalion Buggy Station Wagons weren’t equipped with Inhalators until around 1967/68 (around the time that the Squads were taken out of service. For the first 10 years of the Battalion Station Wagons they all had collapsible frame stretcher cots but and responded to accidents but they didn’t respond to inhalator runs. That was the Squads responsibility if there were no ambulances available.
#8 by Phil Stenholm on October 17, 2013 - 4:34 PM
BILL: I was at the Church Street Boat Ramp in Evanston on a Sunday morning in 1969 after the Evanston F. D. responded to a report of a vehicle in the water (which turned out to be CFD Battalion 10’s buggy, stolen from a fire scene on the south side), and 6-8-7 also responded from Jackson Park (the Evanston Fire Dept. didn’t have a dive team back then).
6-8-7 pulled up in a brand-new Dodge DuraVan, and while I can’t say for sure, I suspect it might have been the DuraVan that was later assigned to Salvage 7 in 1970.
The front-bumper mounted winch from Evanston Squad 21 was used to pull the buggy (a Ford station-wagon) out of the water, after the divers from 6-8-7 checked the vehicle for victims (there weren’t any) and hooked up the cable to the rear of the buggy.
FWIW, the buggy’s Aurora Borealis light was still flashing (underwater) when the Evanston P. D. & EFD first arrived on scene.
#9 by Bill Post on October 14, 2013 - 3:42 PM
Yes David I remember the original Scuba Divers Truck which wasn’t a van at all but was a extended (double) crew cab equipped pickup truck that pulled a boat Trailer behind it. It didn’t start using an Enclosed Van until around the early 1980’s.
#10 by David on October 14, 2013 - 1:31 PM
Bill, thanks much for all the info & history. I live in Europe, so unfortunately I’ve never seen any of those rigs in person. I just saw some photos of the old IHC rigs used by the Salvage co’s in a CFD history books from Ken Little & Fr. McNallis. Also when speaking about the Duravans, Bill, don’t you remember what kind of rig used the Air Sea Rescue unit when it was first established in the 60s?!
#11 by Bill Post on October 14, 2013 - 11:22 AM
David you are talking about the 2 ex Civil Defense Wagons that were assigned to Salvage Squads 4 and 5. That was great if you were a “Southsider” however if you were on the north side you would not see them unless you happened to be on south side or if you happened to be at the old shops or the FIre Academy on a day when they happened to be there.
I had never seen Salvage Squads 4 and 5 ( at least when they were using the International Harvester (Rescue Squads). The Chicago Fire Department did have a few Specifically purchased vehicles for the Salvage Squads however only 2 or 3 were purchased and they were Dodge Duravans ( I believe from 1968). I am not sure if the CFD had two or three of them. I know that Salvage Squad 3 was always assigned at Duravan (complete with a Aurura Borealie light on the top). The other Dodge Durvan or Vans didn’t have an Aurora Borealis light installed on the top but just had a revolving red light on the roof which wasn’t your famous Chicago football style light but was just a circular revolving light,
I had seen that other Dodge Duravan when I was visiting Engine 106’s house one afternoon and Salvage Squad 6 was using it. In fact I had seen Salvage Squad 6 get a run when I was there. A year or two later I had seen Salvage Squad 6 using a 1953 FWD pumper as it’s rig which is what it was using at the time it was taken out of service on November 16 1971.
One day around 1970 I was up on the south west side somewhere near Pulaski and 76 street (around Truck 31’s quarters) about a mile east of Ford CIty and I did happen to see Salvage Squad 7 using a Dodge Duravan also without an Aurora Borealis LIght. I really don’t know if Salvage Squads 6 and 7 where using seperate Dodge Duravans or whether it was the same Duravan that I had seen that could have been reassigned from Salvage Squad 6 to 7 or vice versa. As I rarely had made it up to the south side I really don’t know if Salvage Squad 7 was always assigned the Dodge Duravan but I do know that Salvage Squad 3 was always assigned the Dodge Duravan with the Aurora Borealis light on the roof of it.
Salvage Squad 1 was always assigned Squad 1’s 1954 Auto Car Squad however they were taken out of service early on May 1st 1969.
Salvage Squad 2 who originally went in service at Engine 5 in February of 1967 was usually using a 1956 International Harvester former High Pressure Wagon which was equipped with one or two fixed Turrets on the Hose Bed. When they had relocated Salvage Squad 2 to Engine 24 and then Engine 67 on the West Side they were usually using by then an older (1950’s or late 1940’s vintage spare pumper).
Salvage Squads 1 and 2 both had gone in service February of 1967 and they had replace Squads 1 and 2 however for about 2 months Salvage Squad 2 was called Salvage company 1 however it made more sense to redesignate it as Salvage Squad 2 since they were redesignating Squad 1 as a Salvage Squad also.
#12 by David on October 14, 2013 - 10:36 AM
Bill don’t you remember what rigs did the Salvage Squads use?! I can recall just one type which was a box-like IHC which they received from Civil Defense sometime in the 1960s. I know the rig was originally blue/white but when it ran with Salvage Squad they repainted it black/red.
#13 by Bill Post on October 13, 2013 - 10:20 PM
To get back on the subject of Airport Fire Protection. The Airport Fire stations and apparatus in New York City’s two airports La Guardia and John Fitzgerald Kennedy are not part of the New York City Fire Department but are officially part of and run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey’s Public Safety Department who is responsible for protecting Liberty International Airport in Newark New Jersey and the Teeterboro airport. as well as the two Major Airports in New York City. The airport fire fighters are officially part of the Port Authority Police department however if necessary they will request and dispatch the New York City FIre Department to major incidents at both La Guardia and JFK airport both located in the borough of Queens New York. La Guardia Airport has one Rescue Station and JFK has 2.
They operate three types of Oshkosh Striker Crash ARFF Wagons and each airport has a stairwell unit and a box style Rescue Squad.
When they request the New York City Fire Department to respond to the airports for an aircraft incident the equivalent of a New York City 2nd Alarm is dispatched which includes 8 Engines plus an Engine bringing a hose wagon to the scence and 4 Ladder companies plust a FAST (RIT) Ladder company. Chiefs and Special Operations unit respond as if it were third alarm equivalent. So when called for New York CIty will get a large Fire Department response to their airports.
#14 by Bill Post on October 13, 2013 - 9:20 PM
Tom Sullivan yes I remember the early days of the Flying Squads very well. They were using old Engines for the first four years that they were in service however I believe that for very short period of time at the very beginning Flying Squad 4 started our Using Salvage Squad 1’s 1954 Auto Car. It didn’t last very long however. I remember that Flying Squad 6 had been using the PIrsch Engine that you were talking about and that they were using several other Engines subsequently including a 1949 Mack and a 1953 Four Wheel Drive.
For the first 2 years there were only 6 Flying Squads in service until November 16 1971 when Flying Squad 7 was put in service at Engine 108’s old quarters. Flying Squad 5 had been recommended to be put in service at Engine 7’s station in the “1968 Maatman Report” however the were put in service at Engine 114’s old house instead. Now I don’t know if they didn’t have room for the Flying Squad at Engine 7’s house but i assume that if they would have changed over from a TIllered Aerial Truck to a Rear mounted Aerial they probably would have had the room as Truck 58 did eventually receive a Seagrave rear mounted Aerial Ladder assigned to them. I had also suspected that the reason that Flying Squad 5 was put in service at Engine 114’s old house was because of local political pressure. Because of that both Flying Squads 5 and 6 and had very large running districts for the first 2 years that they were in service. the border between Flying Squad 5 and 6 north of Lawrence avenue had been Elston avenue and Flying Squad 5 took the still alarms west of Elston going north and Flying Squad 6 took the still alarms east of Elston going north. Flying Squad 5 ended up normally following Engine 119 on still alarms as far as the northern most end of it’s district to Howard Street and Ozark which was about a half mile west of Harlem. Considering that they were responding from Fullerton and Central Park that was an awful long distance to travel on a still alarm.
Another foolish move was on the south side when Flying Squad 3 was located with Truck 31 at their new (at the time ) fire station at 7659 S Pulaski for 3 years from March 9 1970 until March 1st 1973 before they had finally moved Engine 64 into the Truck 31’s quarters. For those 2 years Flying Squad 3 was located on the far end of it’s district as opposed to being located more centrally. They had been recommended to be located at Truck 41’s station (when they were at Western and 60th street) however they were never located there. So for 3 years Truck 31 responded without a full Engine company even though the Flying Squad could have led out if necessary in a pinch.For the last year and a half a Fog Pressure did respond with Truck 31 however it certainly was an unusual set up.