Excerpts from foxillinois.com:
While still dealing with a $1.4 million cut to their budget, the Springfield firefighter’s union is concerned over another issue: What happens if there are too many fires and not enough firefighters?
On Sunday night, three fires in under three hours occupied most of the Springfield Fire Department’s resources. Now, they say they are worried that if fewer people are on staff at one time because of these budget cuts, it will leave the city unprotected in situations like this.
Due to the minimum manning provision in the previous contract between the city and the fire union, 49 firefighters have to be on staff at all times. At any moment, there are 45 firefighters on staff who operate 15 companies, plus two safety personnel and two battalion chiefs. During one fire, six rigs go out.
So, on Sunday, when two fires were burning at the same time and one followed shortly thereafter, resources were spread thin.
But, with the fire budget being cut by $1.4 million, the union fears layoffs and changes to the minimum manning provision may be coming.
While the Springfield mayor and the city’s leadership have repeatedly said layoffs will not happen, the union says a change to the minimum manning would be a loophole and would hurt the city in situations like Sunday night.
The previous contract between the city and the union expired on Feb. 28.
#1 by Mike on March 31, 2021 - 8:08 PM
Dan, thank you for your service. Your 20 years of experience as a volunteer obviously makes you qualified to decided on what works best for Springfield. Have you considered a consulting job? I’m sure your phone would be ringing off the hook with municipalities and fire districts looking for your input on how they should staff, respond and organize their entities. BTW, if you can’t figure this comment out it’s all sarcasm towards you.
#2 by Dan on March 28, 2021 - 9:01 PM
DH, I was a volunteer for 20 years, probably saw more actual fires than most full time firefighters.
I agree, 2 man crews don’t work in urban areas and probably not Springfield.
I live in a rural area where it is a combination fire Dept. Most of the calls are medical, obviously and they get a few fires. If they get a structure fire once a week, that’s a busy week. In our area, if there is a fire, we have 2 engines within 5 minutes and the BC helps lay line, if he has to.
But the construction of our house are pretty simple compared to more urban areas, 3 man crews would be a better fit there than here.
#3 by The DH on March 28, 2021 - 1:16 PM
Dan, where do you live? Two man crews is a disaster waiting to happen, especially in a bigger city such as Springfield. Are you even on the job? Cause if you were, you’d understand the problems with two man companies and low manpower. Just because it works somewhere doesn’t mean it’s right or how everywhere should operate. Public safety is the first to get the ax when money doesn’t add up, and money not adding up is usually due to political mismanagement…unions are here to protect all of us because of mismanagement and abuse of power, Dan.
#4 by Mike on March 28, 2021 - 1:13 PM
Dan please tell me what I’m parroting? Maybe I’m not as smart as you are so I am missing this one.
#5 by Dan on March 28, 2021 - 12:09 PM
“I have to ask. Are you upset because the union is commenting? Is that it, do you hate unions?”
Nope but I hate the Chicken Little approach. The sky is not falling, Springfield will survive and this issue isn’t about safety but keeping and gaining union jobs.
BTW, the area where I live have 2 man crews and they do quite well.
So, same question back at you. Why are you parroting the union line? Because of your loyalty to unions?
#6 by Mike on March 28, 2021 - 8:17 AM
Dan if you want to split hairs about this here is some information. Madison, according to their website do have aids for their shift commanders. I believe they’re called division chiefs. Also Madison is running 4 man companies on every apparatus, minus ambulances. If you’re looking to compare something maybe find something almost equal. Like Naperville, Rockford or aurora. All 3 departments are equal to Springfield call wise, staffing and size wise. All 3 of those departments have 2 battalion chiefs and also safety chiefs, they act independently and are not assigned to a BC but they still function the same. Maybe if Springfield had the revenue Madison has we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
I have to ask. Are you upset because the union is commenting? Is that it, do you hate unions?
#7 by Dan on March 28, 2021 - 3:34 AM
Mike, let’s compare Springfield to Madison, WI.
Both are state capitols but Madison also has the UW.
Springfield has about 112,000 people and Madison has about 254,000. Springfield has 12 stations and Madison 14. Most stations have an ambulance and truck or engine, but there are exceptions. Madison has 1 battalion chief on duty, with no driver and Springfield has 2 chiefs and drivers. Both departments are surrounded by volunteer fire departments, with some full time staff on some departments, but the vast majority of the firefighters are volunteer. Madison also runs an ambulance while Springfield does not. Both cover areas outside their city limits.
I guess they can get things done better and are more efficient in Wisconsin than Illinois.
#8 by Mike on March 27, 2021 - 2:23 PM
Dan the only thing special seems to be you. If you look at how incident command is supposed to be run and LODD and NIOSH reports the way Springfield is operating is actually correct. So since you think a BC should be safety, does that mean they need to promote 6 BC’s or have the other on duty BC respond leaving no battalion chiefs available for the city should they get another incident requiring a dedicated incident commander?
#9 by Dan on March 27, 2021 - 12:35 PM
I guess Springfield is a very special city and their problem is unique to them. This never happens anywhere else in the country, right, Mike?
And yes, having 6 drivers is luxury, most departments have a BC operate as safety officer.
#10 by The DH on March 27, 2021 - 10:28 AM
Austin, Springfield does burn a fair amount. I can’t quote any statistics for multiple call situations, but I would imagine due to its size, two fires or calls requiring multiple units happens more than you would think. And as others have said, mutual aid is slim. There are some volly departments nearby, but they are smaller outfits. If you cut the BC drivers, where do you get a safety chief from? The small volly outfits outside the town?
#11 by Mike on March 27, 2021 - 7:41 AM
Dan what union talking points am I parroting? Please tell us. It sounds like you don’t understand how their manpower works and what the use of mutual aid means. So you want them to make cuts and then have other departments supplement them after their cuts? That’s now how mutual aid works. Cutting the BC drivers isn’t the answer either because they act as the aide on fire grounds and or the fireground safety officer. Springfield is an island as bill said compared to northern illinois.
#12 by Dan on March 26, 2021 - 10:32 PM
Well, Mike, first thing I would do is get rid of the drivers for the BC. That’s just waste of manpower. That just freed up 6 people and if they have other drivers, put them on the trucks as well.
And they also belong to MABAS #48, so it’s not like they have mutual aide.
But Mike, I am sure you are just parroting the union talking points with little thought involved.
#13 by Mike on March 26, 2021 - 6:04 PM
Bill you are correct with your number. They have 15 fire companies with 3 people on each company plus 2 battalion chiefs and 2 driver/ aides / safety officers for the BC’s. Last week all the living retired fire chiefs from Springfield wrote a letter to the mayor and aldermen saying they don’t agree with the cuts and that they will have disastrous consequences if implemented. Here is an idea, maybe Dan and Jobs con go down there and fix this since they have such a great understanding of the fire service.
#14 by Bill Post on March 26, 2021 - 5:37 PM
I did the math and the minimum manning for 15 companies with 45 men translate to 3 per company. Why should they let their companies go below 3? Three man companies are bad enough but four is what the minimum should be according NFPA rule 1710. Realistically speaking they will not be going to 4 man companies, but 2 man companies are really playing with fire (pun intended).
#15 by Austin on March 26, 2021 - 4:49 PM
You have to remember Dan that Springfield is not surrounded by many towns, and the ones that are by it are very small. Its not like Elgin, Joliet, or Oak Park that have well funded departments (well mostly) surrounding them, and have more resources available for mutual aid. The bigger question is how often does this type of thing happen. Is it weekly, once a month, once every three months? If it happens once in a blue moon, then yes, I would somewhat agree with you. However if its more frequent, then that is a legitim concern. Elgin and Springfield have pretty much the same population, but Elgin has towns like South Elgin and Bartlett as an example that can be used for mutual aid. Springfield has mostly farming communities they would have to rely on. As we have all seen with what’s happening in Elgin in regards to the department, cuts can have major drawbacks.
#16 by Dan on March 26, 2021 - 7:24 AM
Oh, I don’t know if the union knows this, but there is thing called mutual aid. It’s been in the papers for a little bit of time.
Maybe the union are like the Amish and dont have any computers in their office and they are unaware of this. Heck, maybe the union officials and fire department still use horse pulled engines and hand pumps.