This from Josh Boyajian:
Here is a shot I took of Des Plaines Tower 83. It is the x- Lake Zurich tower that was repainted to match Des Plaines color scheme. It is a 2000 Pierce Dash 100′ tower ladder.
Des Plaines Truck 83 was formerly Lake Zurich Truck 3230. Josh Boyajian photo
Former Lake Zurich Truck 3230. 2000 Pierce Dash 2000/400 100′ tower ladder. Bill Friedrich photo
#1 by cmk420 on July 30, 2013 - 10:10 PM
Several years ago, when I was an active FF, our first out suppression rig was a quint & we were fortunate enough to have an officer and three firefighters on it on a day-in, day-out basis. Quints are very versitile vehicles & they still have a place in today’s fire service. If you stop and think about it, most (if not all) of today’s tower ladders and/or “straight stick” ladder trucks are just larger versions of quints. I’m no expert, but I would think it really depends on a department’s needs & their finances.
#2 by Drew Smith on July 30, 2013 - 12:20 AM
Here’s the report http://desplainesfire.com/images/shared/General%20Information/FireStationStudy1.pdf
It’s a great report. I think the report told the City more than they wanted to hear. When I read these reports I often wonder what wasn’t included because the consultant was asked/told to not go in a certain direction.
When the report was released the city did react to some of the recommendations. The 4th ambulance was placed in service and plans were begun for an additional northside station off Central road near the Wisconsin Central (Soo line) tracks. Unfortunately, when the economy sunk in 2008/2009 the 4th ambulance was dropped. The new station plans were tabled too. Going back to the original plan the FD had, the goal was to move the HQ from the current station 1 to the proposed new station 2. This would remove the flood issue that affects station 1. Another factor not in the report was that Holy Family Hospital closed shortly after the report was published. When HFH was open the DPFD could easily respond from the hospital but now every time they transport they are in Arlington Heights (NW Community) or Park Ridge (Lutheran General) and loose that efficiency which is huge.
#3 by Bill Post on July 29, 2013 - 8:26 PM
Joe thanks for running the link.
Here is the story behind the study. Emergency Services Consulting Inc was hired by the town of Des Plaines around 2005 to do a fire station and company deployment study after the city had plans to build a new station 2 that was only about half a mile south of the current station 2. It is acknowledged that current station 2 is quite small and should be replaced which the report had confirmed.
The location that the city had initially chosen for the new station would have been on city owned Park Property which had plently of room for the fire station. Station 2 only runs with and Engine and an ambulance while Stations 1 and 3 run with Trucks so they are larger.
Some people who lived near the proposed Station 2 got wind of the plans and they started complaining until a local referendum was held and unfortunately the city lost.
The then hired Emergency Services Consulting which is based in Oregon and has fire service veterans who work for the firm.
The Town Des Plaines held a public hearing presented by the Consultants at the Village Hall when the study was just about concluded and it was good presentation as I had attended it. There were three people who were working on the study which included a former fire chief from a town in Florida, A few months later the entire study was put on the town of Des Plaines website however it is no longer there but as a public service the Des Plaines fire fighters union Local 4211 has it on their site. I wonder if the town still has any printed copies of the report left. It would definitely be a good find.
As you can see by the link sent the report is really good and it even gives details as to delays (in minutes) caused by railroad crossings and it even looks at the condition of the current fire stations and it even does call projections based on history and population trends.
The report even did side by side comparisons of several different plans and scenarios for building and adding new fire stations which included projected costs and how well the town would be covered.
The basic conclusion just as I previously mentioned is that 3 fire station scenario is not enough to adequately cover the town based on a 6 minute response time standard at 90% of the time.
The report is 103 pages however if you read the Executive Summary on pages 1 through 4 it will give you enough basic information as to what and why they had recommended 4 stations plus the Rosemont Station 2 to cover
the south end of town.
All of the proposed scenarios recommend a new fire station 2 for Des Plaines as well.
Apparently there were a bunch of NIMBYS (Not in my back yard) people who didn’t want a new fire station 2 which is why the town ended up hiring the consultants. As you can tell it is as very good and a comprehensive report which the city apparently has tried to circumvent as of recently.
#4 by Mike Lopina on July 29, 2013 - 2:38 PM
Bill P- While you’re correct about Pheonix, Az, one need to look no further than next door to Des Plaines to the towns dispatched by RED Center. They have been doing closest company for many years. It is a great system and should be duplicated more throughout our area. Agreed on the quints as far as NOT the best of both worlds; especially as most of the suburbs run only 2 or 3 personnel on them. You can barely function as one OR the other; let alone both.
Interesting to see that the “birthplace” of the “Quint Concept” (St Louis) is going back to actual truck companies (yes they have pumps, but they are being run as trucks primarily). And, since most smaller towns don’t run a dedicated truck company, relying on one for A/A is dicey since the crew most likely is chasing an ambulance or, if it is a jump company ON the ambulance, etc. Then there is the response times coming from another town. If you’re relying on that A/A truck coming from 10 minutes or more away, that can cause issues.
The bottom line for ALL of us is that we are understaffed and we, the Chicago area fire service, have dangerous lapses in coverage of vehicles and manpower. It certainly is interesting to read some of the comments on this site as a barometer on feelings towards manpower, running assignments, etc. One can learn a lot and apply it, or choose not to, to their operations, etc. Not to mention some of stuff towns get on their rigs. Gives ideas when spec-ing apparatus.
Thanks to all who post on here.
#5 by Joe on July 29, 2013 - 10:28 AM
Very well said, Joe. Quints can be a fantastic piece of equipment if staffed and utilized properly – but only in that situation. As most of us know, some departments operate on the system that if the quint is first on scene at a working fire, they are the dedicated engine company.
If second in (or just second on scene, for that matter) – usually they are the truck company, but possibly a second engine depending on the needs of the first unit. As you said though, its nice to know your assignment from the get go and not have confusion. All depends on the individual needs/challenges faced by departments.
#6 by Joe on July 29, 2013 - 10:08 AM
Jim,
Des Plaines Local 4211’s website has links to a few of the things Bill has mentioned. Under the “Community” section of their site they have “Des Plaines Fire Station Study” and “Truck Presentation.” The Truck Presentation is a Power Point presentation on why they decided to keep the 2nd truck company in service as opposed to dropping to 1 truck company or buying a quint in place of truck and engine 83. Interesting stuff. Here’s a link to Des Plaines Firefighters Local 4211: http://www.desplainesfire.com/index.cfm?section=1
#7 by Joe on July 29, 2013 - 10:01 AM
You don’t really have the best of both worlds with a quint. They’re nice apparatus to have, but they don’t solve every problem. One of the biggest issues facing many departments today is manpower, a quint doesn’t solve this and in many cases can actually hurt it. City administrators and taxpayers see the quint as a great option because it can serve as a pumper/engine company or a truck/ladder company, which it can. However, the issue is generally the amount of firemen you can put on the scene. I’m sure many cities have considered combining a truck and engine company into a quint, this will only hurt manpower. Cities think they can take a company out of service if they just give the new company a rig that can serve in place of an engine and truck, but what they’ve really done is to cut manning, it’s not a great solution.
Furthermore, the quint, or even a truck with a pump and hose, can needlessly complicate things for companies responding to a fire. It’s really nice to know your exact assignment while enroute to the fire. Certainly changing conditions need to be taken into account, but it has to be confusing when responding to not know if, for example, you’re going to lead out or go to the roof.
I’m personally a big fan of dedicating companies to do the job they were designed to do. I don’t really like squad and truck tools on an engine, unless absolutely necessary, I don’t understand why a truck should have a pump on it. I understand not every city has the ability, manpower, or money to run they way they want to. However, a quint can’t be viewed as a one size fits all solution to any and all problems. Just my humble opinion, I understand every department’s needs and requirements are different, always fun discussing with you guys.
#8 by Jim on July 29, 2013 - 9:47 AM
Bill,
Where can you find these studies?
#9 by Tom Foley on July 29, 2013 - 1:28 AM
What I don’t understand is why the “other” town gets stuck footing the bill for a truck? Perhaps that other town may use it more so it makes sense. But, I would venture a guess that’s not always the case.
Although more expensive, I don’t get why more towns don’t just by a quint and run it first out. Sure, it’s more expensive, but you do you have the best of both worlds.
#10 by Bill Post on July 28, 2013 - 11:33 PM
I’m aware that Rosemont Station 2 is an ambulance only station however in the Study and recommendations that were done for the town of Des Plaines there were several options that were looked at that would have a fire company running from station 2 that would serve both Rosemont and Des Plaines. As it was close to the far south end of Des Plaines it did make sense to have both towns covered from that station.
One of the best run automatic aide systems is that which is found in the Phoenix Arizona area where there are several different fire departments that will dispatch the nearest fire and ems companies to an incident even if that incident is in another nearby town as the company running districts are based strictly on which is the closest station and company and are not based on municipal boundary lines, All of the fire departments in that area run together and they operate as one large fire department on extra alarm fires and on incidents near the town borders.
#11 by Brian on July 28, 2013 - 10:49 PM
Rich, Lake Zurich has a/a trucks coming in and wasnt running the truck as a first out rig. Why keep it? The time of everyone having their own aerial is a waste of tax payer money. The ability of auto-aid provides the right amount of required apparatus and leaving the need for everyone to own an expensive aerial as a thing of the past.
#12 by ffpm571 on July 28, 2013 - 7:29 PM
Rosemont St # 2 isn’t an option as its only manned by an ambulance crew who do not do any firefighting
#13 by Rich Rehner on July 28, 2013 - 11:58 AM
Very sad to see that the Village of Lake Zurich put into the situation of having to sell their only aerial apparatus, leaving them without a truck company at all. Sad sign of the times….
#14 by Mike Lopina on July 28, 2013 - 10:26 AM
Agreed, Bill. Station 2 on Oakton is isolated at times due to the Canadian National & Union Pacific tracks cutting through their district. The same goes for Station 3. It’s nice to see Des Plaines running two trucks as they have many multiple family dwellings & mid/high rises throughout the town. Too bad that they cannot act on that consultant’s study and build a 4th station as it is needed on the south side. Rosemont Station 2 would be a stretch as those joint firehouses don’t always work out well and it is too far south.
#15 by Bill Post on July 28, 2013 - 3:10 AM
It is good to see the town of Des Plaines get a newer and apparently little used Tower Ladder. The town had a study done just a few years ago regarding Fire Station placement and if there was a need for any additional fire stations.
The study was a very good one it looked at several scenarios for a total of 5. The basic premise and thrust of the study was the best way to keep the town covered to be kept with a 6 minutes maximum response time given the amount of railroad crossings and some of the outlying areas.
It was a very good and comprehensive study done by Emergency Services Consulting and did a very close look at the town and it fire department which included looking the amount of both EMS and fire alarms , railroad crossing delays and surrounding communities fire protection for the purpose of mutual and automatic aid responses. The bottom line is that the town wasn’t recommended to be reduced to one Truck company for the entire town and after looking at 5 separate scenarios which involved 3 , 4 and 5 possible fire stations both with and with out automatic aide from neighboring communities they felt that the 3 station scenario was the most inadequate while they felt that having 4 stations plus a fifth “cooperative response” station with Rosemont Illinois would offer the best solution both from a coverage and a cost point of view. They also examined a 5 fire station scenario both with and without a cooperative response agreement with Rosemont and other neighboring communities.
The report had recommended a 4th in service ambulance which the town of Des Plaines had put in service and had suggested that using their projections that a fifth Ambulance may be needed in the future. The bottom line is that 3 fire stations covering the town wasn’t adequated and that they would need at least 4 stations assuming they could get Rosemont to respond with automatic aide from their fire station number 2 on Higgins road which was near the border of Des Plaines.
I haven’t seen the town of Des Plaines act on that recommendation however. Maybe some one out there might have more up to date information on the town of Des Plaines current plans for more adequate emergency coverage?
#16 by Richard Mosher Jr. on July 27, 2013 - 11:30 PM
They should get back to Grummans/KME they have a 102 foot Tower.
#17 by Brian on July 27, 2013 - 11:00 PM
Highrises on each side of the tracks
#18 by Scott on July 27, 2013 - 8:14 PM
Why do they need two, to begin with?
#19 by Dan on July 27, 2013 - 12:36 PM
Nice! I’m glad they were able to make it have that classic look that the previous 83 had. I’m also glad they had a chance to buy this, I had heard rumors that they were looking at going down to one truck.