Fifth article about the 4-11 Alarm fire on Saturday at 2444 W. 21st Place in Chicago.
Images from Dave Weaver:
Big header seen while approaching the scene from the north on Western Avenue. Dave Weaver photo
Massive fire and smoke consume the building at 2444 W. 21st Street in Chicago on 12-29-12 as seen from the northwest. Dave Weaver photo
Firefighters from Engine 23 with Tower Ladder 5 (using a spare apparatus) monitor a multi-versal at the west end of the block . Dave Weaver photo
Images from Dan McInerney:
Engine 18. Both 18 & 5 pumping to the fireground and connected to hydrants using hard suction. Dan McInerney photo
Engine 5 pumping to the Tower Ladder 39. Dan McInerney photo
Air Mask Unit 6-4-4. Dan McInerney photo
E109 pumping to E23 which was under the viaduct. 109 was a still engine and connected two sections of 4 inch hose to the hydrant. The remaining engines arriving connected via hard suction hose per CFD operating procedures for large fires. Engines arriving on the 2-11 alarm and above will make their connections using the 6 inch hard suction hose. Dan McInerney photo
E99 was sent to lay lines if needed to the roof to cover flying brands. Dan McInerney photo
E44 pumping to a multi-versal on the southeast corner of the building. Dan McInerney photo
E103 seen receiving water from E28 down the street from the east and from a hydrant. Dan McInerney photo
E65 is seen pumping to E26. E65 is shown connected to the hydrant using the lightweight suction hose. There are two types of lightweight suction hose – the first is hose that is to be used for suction only (negative pressure) and not to be connected to a pressurized hydrant (positive pressure). The type of lightweight suction hose the CFD now issues to rigs is reinforced internally to be able to withstand positive pressure. Dan McInerney photo
The type of lightweight suction hose the CFD now issues to rigs is reinforced internally to be able to withstand positive pressure. The reinforcing matrix is visibile as a white colored lattice underneath the clear sections of the hose. Dan McInerney photo
T52 – rig shot while in staging. Dan McInerney photo
CTA emergency unit 202. This unit respond citywide for any emergency involing the EL tracks or CTA property. In this case they responded to the scene due to the fire’s proximity to the Pink Line, which was shut down early on in the fire. Dan McInerney photo
Peoples Gas was requested to shut down the gas to the building. To do so, they had to dig a hole in the street, which is visible here underneath the sheets of plywood and cones. It was later requested they use their front end loader to clear the street of bricks from the collapse so TL54 could be moved west down 21st St. to better wash down the ruins. Dan McInerney photo
E23 (still engine) took a postion underneath the railroad viaduct directly to the west of the fire building. This spot left the rest of 21st St. open for responding truck companies, and also provided them some protection from falling debris should the building collapse. The viadust later flooded due to the fire streams being used on the building. At it’s height there were at least 11 master streams being employed. At a slightly conservative 500gpm each, a minimum of around 6000gpm for 2 plus hours will flood any viaduct, and they usually do flood. Dan McInerney photo
T7 rig shot ( RIT truck at the 4-11). Dan McInerney photo
Truck 48 with the ladder to the roof of a nearby building. Dan McInerney photo
Unmanned multiversals on the SW corner of the fire building. Dan McInerney photo
The previous post was HERE.
#1 by Bill Post on January 27, 2013 - 1:37 PM
Well it looks like the way things have been going lately (in terms of large warehouse fires) they just might need to modernize the deluge units both the small ones and the large one on the Mack chassis that they put to use at the 5-11 and 2 specials at 37th and Ashland.
#2 by Matt on January 2, 2013 - 10:56 AM
The former 6-7-1 deluge unit was a Mack MB that was intended to be a tractor for a H&L company but was fitted with the large stang nozzle. Note that there are still two smaller deluge units in service, one on the North Side and one at E104’s quarters on the far southeast side. So these resources have not totally gone away.
If they keep having these fires, they may look at modernizing these rigs.
As to the pumps and the ratings, the typical pump on a fire engine will most likely flow more water than the rating on the pump panel when there is no lift involved and water supply is plentiful. Note that Chicago is unique in our large volume, low pressure hydrants with two steamer connections on each plug as you do not see this arrangement elsewhere. So with the large volume and no lift since hydrants and the steamer intakes are pretty close in height, more than 1500 GPM should be possible from an engine.
#3 by DMc77 on January 1, 2013 - 8:38 PM
I agree with Scott on this one. The multi-versals usually have a 1.5″ tip on them to flow 600gpm or so, I’ve seen some of the elevated master streams with an 1 3/8″ tip that would flow 500gpm. Bill Post notes above that FDNY is now equipping more and more of their engine companies with 2000gpm pumps, and they use their master streams like CFD does. So the 1500-2000 gpm pumps in an urban setting may be more about moving the water downstream rather than applying water directly to the fire at a rate the water system (hydrants) and engine co. pumps could support. The next time you see a tower or snorkel in action at a large scale fire like the one above, take a close look at the tip size they are using and match that up with the hydrant, engine pump capacity and large diameter hose to try and determime if they are getting the most out of their master stream capability
#4 by Scott on January 1, 2013 - 6:00 PM
In regards to the deluge units, the sad part is when they where used it appears they were not used to their porper or potential use. Fires I had been at or even in some of the recent photos from the fire on the North Side earlier this year, it appears the tip size used was no more than a 2″ (1000gpm) or less. Since all the deck guns, tower ladders & snorkels can do the same, it was not the most efficient use of the deluge rig when you had 4-6 LDH supply lines to it and flowing no more than 2000gpm even though they should be flowing close to 4000gpm.
#5 by David on January 1, 2013 - 7:57 AM
Bill, thank you for all the info! I’m not sure where I’ve seen the opinion that the TLs replaced the big deluge rigs, but what I understood from that was that the department probably doesn’t consider the deluge trucks as a usefull concept any more because all the big fires now, like the recent 4-11s, are successfully fought with numerous elevated master streams (mainly TLs). I’m not an expert so this is just my opinion, but I think that to rely solely on the tower ladders is not a good decision, as this will leave the city without a single piece of specialized apparatus to contain a large scale fire. On top of that (as you mentioned) the big deluge units have numerous advantages (for example reduce the time some of the companies have to spend on the fireground, etc..). The only reason I can see why they didn’t want to replace the 6-7-1 is the money. But then again this doesn’t make that much sense to me, because as you mentioned, the company could be cross-manned and the only new hardware they’ll have to invest in would be a new chassis, as the old guns probably could still be used. This resembles a situation from the early 20th century, when at one time the CFD didn’t have a single water tower and almost no apparatus with a deck gun in the entire fleet, which turned out to be a great mistake as several huge fires later proved.
#6 by Bill Post on December 31, 2012 - 9:55 PM
David, I really don’t see how the tower ladders could be a reason to replace a large deluge unit. Whoever said that doesn’t know anything about the Chicago Fire Department’s history.
First of al, when Chicago’s first super Deluge Unit, which was known as Big Mo went in service, Chicago was still using Snorkel companies in addition to our original Snorkel Squads. Big Mo and it’s big brother Big John didn’t replace the Snorkels. In fact the Snorkel, Big Mo, and Big John were all ideas that were promoted by the late Fire Commissioner Robert J. Quinn who personally saw a need for both types of units. Let’s face it, both the Snorkel and the tower ladder are elevated platforms and the real difference between the two are just the type of device that raises and lifts the platform into position.
When the tower ladders replaced the Snorkel companies in Chicago, it was because tower ladders were more versatile and were used as regular truck companies in addition to having a platform. As the extra alarm fires decreased Chicago, the Snorkel companies were taken out of service. There were less and less fires that they were being used at, so it was felt that their crews could be put to better use. It was only recently that 6-7-1 was taken out of service. While the deluge units also don’t get used or called for that much, there is no question that when they are needed they perform an invaluable service.
Even though a deluge unit will only get called for a few times a year, the fact that it would be cross-manned with an engine company really isn’t a problem. Our large deluge unit 6-7-1 had a chassis from the mid 1970’s, and I just think that they didn’t want to replace it and they just (mistakenly) figured that it really had not been used that much. That wasn’t really a good idea.
When our deluge units were separately manned companies, they would respond automatically on the 2-11 alarms and for a few years in the 1970’s the Chicago Fire Department had what was called a Water Task Force. This consisted of Engine 5 and Engine 42 as well as our new (at the time) hose wagon 6-1-1. They would be dispatched to 3-11 alarms to supply additional water to companies working at the fire (if necessary) by hooking up to larger water main and doing in-line pumping if that was required. They would be used to supply water to Big John and the new Deluge Unit 6-7-5. The new deluge unit had become 6-7-1 a few years later, when the special operations units were numbered for the districts that they were assigned to.
The Water Task Force lasted from May 18th 1977 until August 10th 1981. It was very much like New York City’s Maxi Water response system, which was begun with their famous Super Pumper and was transferred to New York City’s current fleet of six satellite hose wagons. These are equipped with a large Stang style deluge monitor like you mentioned. Each of those satellite hose (deluge) wagons are located with a 2,000 gallon-per-minute engine company that would respond with the hose wagon as part of their Maxi Water System.
Even though Engines 5 and 42 were officially part of the Water Task Force since they both were running with 2,000 gallon-per-minute, 1972 vintage ALF pumpers, the Chicago Fire Department actually had over a dozen 2,000-gpm pumpers in service. We had seven 1970 Ward LaFrance models, six 1972 American LaFrance models, and five 1978 American LaFrance models. Six of the Ward LaFrance models were rebuilt with Ranger cabs and E-One bodies in 1988/89. Two of them were used in the movie Back Draft. Our only official 2,000-gpm pumpers currently are Engines 9 and 10, however I understand that at least a few of our 1,500-gpm pumpers actually have 2,000-gpm capable pumps on board.
As of the last few years, New York City is ordering all of their new pumpers with 2,000-gpm pumps which are replacing engines that were rated at 1,000-gpm.
#7 by Dave W. on December 31, 2012 - 9:21 AM
I must have seen a shot of TL54 with the 4 cropped out. My photo of the crew working with spare TL5 was more of a silhouette shot. Larry did a nice job of bringing out the detail. I needed 50 more pounds on that photo! Once I get Final Cut Pro I’ll be able to create a good HD video from that west end that includes a wall collapse. The picture quality of this low-rez screener and lack of audio doesn’t do it justice, but for the sake of “full coverage” here it is…
http://www.justin.tv/radioman911/b/352316734
#8 by David on December 31, 2012 - 3:48 AM
Bill, exactly my words with the 6-7-1, they say that the TLs replaced the concept of large deluge units but look at FDNYs Satellites (one per boro) or elsewhere, the departments still purchase these rigs. I think that to cover a city the size of Chicago it’ll be wise to have at least one such unit. Any opinions on this theme are really welcomed!
#9 by Nick N on December 30, 2012 - 10:08 PM
Well done everyone on the images!
#10 by Bill Post on December 30, 2012 - 8:44 PM
These are truly great photos from everyone who posted them. This kind of extra alarm fire involving a warehouse that is totally involved, with flames shooting through the roof, has been very few and far between (until recently as this is the third 4-11 or 5-11 over the last few weeks and months). Getting more to the point, these types of extra alarms were much more common in the 70’s, 60’s, and earlier eras. This particular fire also proves my point as to why the Chicago Fire Department still could use a large deluge Wagon such as 6-7-1 which was recently taken out of service. It’s ironic that 6-7-1 happened to be located with the still alarm Engine 23 before it was taken out of service.
#11 by Dave W. on December 30, 2012 - 7:17 PM
Someone sent me a message telling me that was Tower Ladder 5’s crew working with the spare rig. But I swear I saw Tower 5’s basket number visible in another photo.
#12 by Eric Haak on December 30, 2012 - 6:43 PM
Now that’s what I call COMPLETE coverage!