This from Adam Levinson:
Hi,
I went to Wilmette FD’s open house today and took several pictures of their new Rescue 27.Adam
Adam Levinson photo
Adam Levinson photo
Adam Levinson photo
Adam Levinson photo
Adam Levinson photo
New rescue unit for Wilmette FD
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#1 by tom sullivan on October 15, 2013 - 11:25 AM
ems / fire dispatching protocol is definitely politically influenced, what works in one city will not in another on the face of it. in addition past practice and history plays a roll. Chicago has never had a policy of not sending the closest unit available on an run. this has resulted in some cases where an ambulance from one end of the city has been started out to a run at the other end, knowing that most likely another ambo will become available and sent.
in the early days of the “ambulance assist” program, in the mid 1980s, before bls & more als ambos were put in service, it was not unheard of for an outlying company on an assist run to wait up to a half hour before an ambulance arrived.
#2 by Bill Post on October 15, 2013 - 10:20 AM
Yes Tom you are correct about the West side in Engine 96’s area and all of the surrounding Engine companies to Engine 96 being ALS Engines.
If you go a few miles east of them you will find that Trucks 36 and 32 are also ALS Trucks. In addition to Engines 96, 44 and 109 being BLS (because their Trucks are ALS companies) the West side still does have some single Engine stations that are BLS and those are Engines 99 ,107 and 103. Engine 77 was also a BLS Engine and because of the high volume of ambulance assist runs an argument could have been made to keep Engine 77 in service. Ambulance 10 has consistently been the busiest Ambulance in Chicago with Ambulances 15 and 52 usually numbers 2 and 3 and not to mention Ambulances 23 and all of other ambulances. Quite often Ambulance 7 is responding into their districts because those ambulances are tied up on other runs.
Speaking of other cities did you know what New York City does to make sure that there are always enough Engines available for fire duty?
They divide the Engine companies in the different areas into working group’s of 4 to 9 Engines and if half of the Engines that are assigned to that particular working group are not available then first responder runs in that working group’s area are suspended until more of the Engines become available. New York City further divides and prioritizes it’s EMS runs into what they call “Segments” which go from 1 to 9. Segments 1 to 3 are considered to be life threatening emergencies and normally a first responder company will be dispatched on all segment 1 and most segment 2 and 3 calls. If there is an extra alarm fire in an area or if more then half of that areas predesignated working group of Engine companies are tied up then (like I had mentioned) the first responder runs in that area are suspended with the exception of Segment 1 calls while all of the Segment 2 and 3 calls are suspended. The Segment 1 EMS calls in New York city are 1. Cardiac Arrest 2. Respiratory Arrest. 3 Choking 4 An unconscious child and 5. A child with a Cardiac problem.
None of New York City’s Engines are ALS however they are all certified first responders equipped with (AEDS) Automatic External Defibrillators.
When the CFR (certified first responder program) began in New York City in 1995 the Engine companies were all trained and certified as first responders and then the Trucks are also supposed to be certified as first responders however the firefighters union had demanded extra pay for Truckmen responding on EMS runs and therefore New York City doesn’t send the Trucks as first responders on EMS runs. If there is a Cardiac Arrest call and the nearest fire station has both an Engine and a Truck but the Engine isn’t available the Truck will not be dispatched but the second due Engine (from a further distance) will be dispatched instead.
Even though New York City doesn’t send it’s Trucks on EMS first responder runs it is for the wrong reasons (extra pay). I think we all agree that first responders should be not be sent on non life threatening calls (BS calls) but in the case of a real life threatening emergency then the nearest company should go. New York City only sends first responders on what is classified as a life threatening emergency.
#3 by NJ on October 15, 2013 - 8:39 AM
Bill,
CFD will very often send a BLS truck company along with the ambo if they think manpower assist might be needed. This is often the case in areas like the West and South sides. The Engine Co is not sent because they are ALS and that would put them OOS along with the ALS Ambo leaving a gap in coverage.
As an example, it is not uncommon for Ambo 15 to be dispatched from quarters on an EMS run with TL14 accompanying. Often, the Tower is held up before it can even get to the scene, or just as it is pulling up.
CFD will not send an ALS Engine Co if the ambo is close enough though. ALS Engine Co’s are used to fill the gap due to the very overworked ambo’s, of which there are not nearly enough of.
BTW, ALS Truck Co’s are a dumb idea IMO. There are far fewer Truck Co’s and they are needed for fire related runs far more.
#4 by tom sullivan on October 15, 2013 - 7:54 AM
bill, another great write up ! speaking of ems / fire dispatching, using tower ladders on ems is really a poor choice from a cost effectiveness point. however as often is the case outside influences control that. there are many considerations that have to made on a daily basis when sending fire companies on ems. just one example would be the west side of Chicago, where the ambos; 10, 15, 23, 52, 33, 34, are running many , many thousands of runs per year. the fall back on fire companies to cover as a 1st response is also extremely high.
t-29 at e-96 quarters has almost always been used as the first choice to take an ems run in their dist. on the far west end of the city. even before they were upgraded to an als truck. because the surrounding engines, 38,68, 95, 113, 117, are all als, they are often committed, leaving e-96 as the only engine available for miles around. e-96 will take ems runs if some of the other companies are available. most of the time it works out that there is a fast enough turn around time on runs that the west side is not completely stripped of companies, but there are times where this happens and the fao has made change of quarters assignments to cover that situation. it also occurred that the truck companies, 26, tl-14, 36, 48 would take the bls runs while the engines were held for the als runs which would soon come in. throw in the fire & special duty runs and it gets pretty hectic.
there would be similar circumstances i’m sure in many other cities. all in all it is a very complex, fluid situation to handle on a daily basis
#5 by The DH on October 14, 2013 - 10:01 PM
0.02 you are the one that took it to a point of seemingly “whose department has bigger cahones first.” I work for a suburban department doing around 8k a year. Anyway, my point being is that unless you work there or have worked somewhere that specifically had a rig such as this that failed, you can’t say anything. Different strokes for different folks…there must be something that works with it since the west coast has been sending these rescue type rigs on ambo runs for oh lets say 30 years. Think Emergency!, LA County and several others. Yea, it is an extra rig, but it is an extra rig that costs less than an ambo that will last…
Thanks Bill as always for your great historical reference! I love reading your posts!
#6 by Bill Post on October 14, 2013 - 9:32 PM
NJ or anyone else who knows the answer on this? The reason why I pose this as I question is that the policy may have changed since last knew what the Chicago fire departments EMS dispatch and response policy was and is.
To my knowledge the Chicago Fire Department didn’t send a fire company on the initial EMS dispatch unless the nearest ALS ambulance was more then 18 blocks away (2 and 1/4 miles to be exact) or if it was specifically a cardiac related run. If the nearest ALS ambulance was more then 18 blocks away then a first responder fire company would be dispatched and it the nearest fire company wasn’t an ALS company then an ALS company could also be dispatched , however that was only if the ALS ambulance was more then 18 blocks away or it was a cardiac related run.
Chicago as far as I know (unless the policy was recently changed) wouldn’t automatically dispatch a fire company on all EMS runs (like is done in most of the suburbs who do send fire companies on all EMS runs).
When it comes to identified BLS ,EMS runs then the Chicago Fire department had followed a policy of sending a fire company as a first responder if the nearest BLS ambulance was more then 4 miles away as a BLS run isn’t as time and distance sensitive as an ALS run is. Should the nearest BLS ambulance be more then 8 miles away then an ALS will be dispatched to a BLS run along with a first responder fire company.
I believe that the EMS dispatch policy that I just stated is still in effect but if it may have been changed or modified let me know because even though it may seem like (because Chicago gets so many EMS runs) Chicago doesn’t have a policy of sending a first responder fire company on all EMS runs.
That said the Engine company should (in my opinion) always be the first company to be dispatched on an EMS first responder type of run as the Engine is still lighter and slightly more maneuverable then a Truck company is (Tower Ladder or not). Now I know that over the last several years Chicago recently did put some ALS Trucks in service as opposed to only running with ALS engines. Perhaps that was done to balance off the fire companies who would be available for fire duty in a busy EMS area or more likely it may have been done so that there could be more “Truckmen ,Paramedics” as opposed to only having “Enginemen Paramedics”. Based strictly on the issue or wear an tear on the rig it does make a little more sense to have only the Engines as ALS companies and having the Trucks strictly as a BLS first responder. Either way the Engine and Trucks will still be responding on some of the EMS runs strictly because there are more EMS runs then there are available ambulances in many areas of the city.
This problem is also common in other cities as well. The Los Angeles City Fire Department which doesn’t and had never run with a Tower Ladder runs with all of it’s Truck companies as Tillered Aerial Ladders and all but one it’s 42 Trucks run with a one man Engine as it’s second piece which is known as a Light Force. The one man Engine is part of the Light Force so it is not a separate Engine company but it allows the Truck to function as an Engine if necessary. Either way the Light Forces also run on some EMS runs like Chicago’s Trucks and some of them are also ALS (advanced life support Light Forces). It really becomes a matter of how serious the emergency is and reducing the “wait time” for help to arrive on the scene.
The Los Angeles City Fire Department does have a larger fleet of ALS ambulances 89 ALS and 45 BLS ambulances however Los Angeles also has over a million more people then Chicago and has over twice as much area as Chicago does (469 sq miles versus 227 sq miles) with only a few more fire stations then Chicago has (96 in Chicago and 104 for Los Angeles City). While Los Angeles does send Trucks and Engines on many of their EMS runs they also will send both an ALS and a BLS ambulance on some EMS runs which by doing that avoids sending a larger fire Truck or Engine on some runs which can reduce some wear and tear. By sending an ALS and a BLS ambulance on runs instead of a Truck can reduce wear tear however there has to be enough available ALS and BLS ambulances nearby in order to avoid sending a Truck company to the EMS run. Currently Chicago doesn’t have enough BLS ambulances to go around to avoid sending out larger Trucks.
The Los Angeles Fire Department had recently added 11 more BLS ambulances to their fleet (from 34 to 45) however they had to take one man off of 22 of their formerly 6 man light forces in order to man the new BLS ambulances.
Chicago (so far) has been much luckier then Los Angeles City as within the last 3 years Los Angeles City had taken 10 Engines and 7 Trucks (Light Forces) out of service in addition to eliminating one Division two Battalions. That’s only after 9 BLS ambulance were taken out of service within the last 4 years.
The bottom line is that the Trucks should only be sent out on EMS runs only when the Engine is not available from the same fire station or there needs to be more more ambulances out on streets in order to avoid the need to send out fire companies as often to EMS runs.
#7 by NJ on October 14, 2013 - 8:59 AM
While maintenance is a big factor, so is use. The dept’s running older equipment in good condition, tend to have far fewer runs in them. Most of them are suburban depts. Just as an example, Skokie Fire had slightly under 8000 total runs (fire and EMS) in 2012. CFD Ambo 10 had slightly under 8000 runs on it’s own in 2012. That will effect equipment life very significantly.
CFD’s Tower Ladders are getting beat to hell on EMS runs. They are sent on the initial dispatch with the ambos for manpower. Maintenance helps and is vital but runs and crappy streets beat the rigs up and their lives are drastically shortened. They are very expensive, heavy and designed to fight fires and effect rescues from high elevations. There is a degree of logic in having low cost rigs to respond to high volume calls and not having high cost rigs respond to calls they are not designed for nor needed at.
Manpower on the rigs is a totally different issue.
#8 by 0.02 on October 12, 2013 - 2:47 PM
it’s not about maniliness, it’s about knowing what you’re talking about. Tell me what apparatus cost multimillion dollars. A tower does run about a million but thats on the high end. There are departments out there running million dollar ladders into the ground because they can’t afford to maintain them and then there are departments out there running pieces of crap that are pushing 30 – 40 years old but are running and reliable because they are maintained. That’s the point i’m making. This rescue is a band aid that probably looked good on paper, but operationally will fail eventually.
I’m glad that your employer is running 20,000 911 calls a year, I’ll sleep better at night knowing this, as i’m sure everyone else will too.
#9 by Midwest Medic on October 12, 2013 - 11:00 AM
I’m not going to engage you in some sort of contest of manly-ness 0.02 because I will readily admit that I think I misunderstood your point about costs. I’ll also gladly point out that the private ambulance I work for runs in excess of 20,000 911 calls a year. I’ve also worked in and around plenty of firehouses. My misunderstanding was more semantic than it was a result of my place of employment.
#10 by 0.02 on October 10, 2013 - 10:33 PM
I work in the suburbs, not that it matters but at my place of employment we are running over 5,000 runs a year. Without a good PM program even the best of rigs will get ruined.
#11 by Brian on October 10, 2013 - 7:04 PM
0.02, just curious, are you a ff in the burbs or in chicago?
#12 by 0.02 on October 10, 2013 - 1:00 PM
Midwest Medic, I think you need to understand what you’re talking about before you speak. This isn’t a privite ambulance company. My point is if you can’t afford to maintain or staff the equipment then don’t buy it. Yes running a tower on EMS runs is more expensive then running the rescue, but you can’t prepare for everything and eventually an incident is going to happen where the wrong vehicle arrives first and things don’t have a good outcome. IE this rescue is a band aid and for what they probably paid for it would probably take 4 or 5 years worth of fuel and maintainence on a tower to equal the cost.
#13 by Bill Post on October 10, 2013 - 4:27 AM
I had heard that both of the Fire Stations in Wilmette each had an Engine , a Tower Ladder and an ambulance. The New Tower Ladder was at Station 26 and the older one was at Station 27. I also had heard that they were switching off as to who would be running the Tower Ladder so that on some days that Tower Ladder out of Station 26 would be running and on some days the Tower Ladder out of Station 27 would be operating. On the days that a Stations Tower Ladder was not operating the crew would be manning that stations Engine instead.
Whether that is still the case I really don’t know. That is what I had read however.
#14 by matt on October 9, 2013 - 11:10 PM
E27 has a new engine in production who is goin man that if its uunmanned?
#15 by Rudy on October 9, 2013 - 6:57 PM
Engine 27 is not manned, They run the Tower out of 27 with the ambulance
#16 by Bill Post on October 8, 2013 - 11:01 AM
So now we have another “player” in the Wilmette Fire Departments game of musical chairs. With the new “jump” squad in service will Wilmette still be alternating Tower Ladder assignments between the Tower 26 and Tower 27 and the same goes for alternating Engines 26 and 27 on calls?.
How often do they alternate the Tower Ladders with the Engines? Are they alternated every other day, every other week or every other month?
I realize that Wilmette doesn’t want to ” run the wheels off” of an expensive Tower Ladder for EMS runs so why not just have the Tower Ladder crew just jump on the Engine when they get an EMS run.
#17 by Midwest Medic on October 8, 2013 - 10:32 AM
0.02, it’s actually a pretty efficient use of resources. I’m a full time paramedic and have been in EMS for almost 8 years, and I’ve still never been on a routine EMS call, excluding car accidents, where a pump and hose were needed. Yeah, it kind of sucks having to wait for your manpower to assemble should a fire call occur while the company is split, but putting wear and tear on a multimillion dollar piece of heavy fire apparatus that is intended for firefighting to chase ambulance calls were having the extra manpower is merely a convenience (I run 95% of my EMS calls with just me and my partner) is silly. A LOT of places elect to run smaller apparatus when possible for a lot of different calls, especially EMS calls.
#18 by 0.02 on October 7, 2013 - 9:14 PM
makes sense sending an engine with 1 person on it. If you can’t staff it, don’t buy it.
#19 by Rudy on October 7, 2013 - 5:25 PM
From what I heard, This is a jump company, and will respond with 2 off the engine, and will respond city wide on all ambulance calls. Engine 27 will respond with just a driver or if A27 is in house with there crew. Trying to save the Tower from wear and tear of ambulance runs.
#20 by Evan Davis on October 6, 2013 - 1:24 PM
A very nice looking truck! Will this replace the International squad they had?
#21 by Robert on October 6, 2013 - 7:50 PM
No, the international will go back to the house it was at. I believe 26?
#22 by Tyler T on October 6, 2013 - 12:57 PM
Wilmette Runs a Squad too
#23 by Ron Wolkoff on October 6, 2013 - 10:52 AM
I would like to know how they plan to run this piece? They run an Eng, Amb at 27 plus the other truck is there. Sta 26 also runs the same.