The site listing for Chicago Engine 22’s house has been missing an image of 5-1-11. Hank Sajovic submitted an image of this unit.
CFD unit 5-1-11 is attached to the Hazardous Incident Team (HIT). It is quartered with Engine 22 and 5-1-1. This unit carries Shop Id#G-569 and is a 2007 Ford F-650 with a Supreme Truck Body. Hank Sajovic photo
#1 by Mike McAuliffe on September 4, 2012 - 1:09 PM
I drove by last night and was surprised to see that the new house is not occupied yet. Does anyone have a projected date?
I also visited 5-1-1 a couple of weeks ago and the officer was emphatic that they will not be moving. Any information on that? Any possibility Engine 29 may be moved to 16’s new house?
Thank you in advance for any responses.
#2 by Mike McAuliffe on August 6, 2012 - 9:07 AM
Bill, now that you are on the subject of snorkels, perhaps you could provide some insight as to why Fire Commissioner Quinn was so tight with funds that he did not purchase a new small snorkel for SS-3 or new snorkel for Snorkel 1 (which became SS-3), and, most imporantly, he did not purchase a new snorkel to replace Snorkel 7? The snorkels were his obvious pride and joy. In my opinion, to the extent that he was blinded to the potential advantages of aerialscopes/tower ladders. Why didn’t he purchase replacements? This was during a time when snorkels were fairly common. Some departments were even using small snorkels as a second piece engine. Crown was making superb snorkels on the west coast. The LACityFD had two that they wanted to get rid of. It could not have been that difficult to get a good deal on a used or even a new one.
I always thought it was a mark against Quinn that the city had only one snorkel on the south side, Snorkel 3, for most of the 1970s when the south side was “realy rolling”. Whenever a south side still and box came in, you would always hear on the sounder, “Snorkel 5 to Snorkel 3”.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
#3 by danny on August 4, 2012 - 1:31 PM
i feel like an ass forgetting about 5 lol
#4 by Brian on August 3, 2012 - 6:18 PM
TL 5
#5 by Dennis on August 3, 2012 - 6:17 PM
@Danny
Tower Ladder Co’s:
5,10,14,21,23,34,37,39,54,63
#6 by danny on August 3, 2012 - 1:10 PM
who are the 10 tower ladders in service in chicago i can only think of 9
towers: 10, 14, 21, 23, 34, 37, 39, 54, 63, and ?????
#7 by Bill Post on August 2, 2012 - 10:56 PM
Jeff the history of the elevating platform in the modern fire service goes back to 1958 when the Chicago Fire Department under the late Fire Commissioner Robert J Quinn had the Chicago Fire Department shops modify an articulated elevating utility platform for fire fighting and rescue services which became known as the Snorkel. It caught on and within a year or two several heavy equipment manufacturers started building them as quite a few fire departments had begun ordering Snorkels.
The New York City Fire Department started working with apparatus engineers from the Mack Company where they developed the telescopic elevating platform known by the trade name as the Aerialscope. The first Aerialscope was built by the Truco company on a Mack chassis. The next five were built by the Eaton company and after that beginning in 1971 they were built by the Baker company. They were all built on Mack chassis until Mack stopped building custom built fire apparatus chassis in 1989/90. From then on Seagrave built the Aerialscopes.
One of the reasons why New York used Aerialscopes as opposed to Snorkels is that the full sized (above 55 feet) Snorkels had a large front overhang which wasn’t good for the congested streets and fire stations in New York. The Snorkels had worked out just fine for Chicago’s elevating platform needs at the time. Chicago’s 55-foot Snorkels, which still run as the second pieces of our 3 Snorkel (Rescue) Squads, continue to work out just fine. They are very maneuverable, very good for using in our narrow alleys, and these work well on our 2-flats and some of our deep courtyard apartment buildings.
For our taller elevating platforms we have been using standard tower ladders since 1986, which give us the advantage of a straight aerial ladder with a basket on it which allows it to be used for both elevated streams plus standard truck and rescue work. We still have a large 85-foot Snorkel that gets special called several times a year when we need an additional elevating platform at large fires and for wetting down smoldering ruins. The main reason why we took our larger Snorkel companies out of service (in 1983) was because unlike other cities, our Snorkel companies were used strictly as a specialty company for their elevating platform and elevated master streams. As the extra alarm fires went down, the fire commissioner at the time took the Snorkel companies out of service since they were used mainly at fewer extra alarm fires. In New York City the Aerialscopes (tower ladders) were always used as truck companies unlike our Snorkel companies. Three years later we started putting tower ladders in service. Chicago seems to be happy with them as they can also be used as a regular truck company.
In New York City, their Aerialscopes also serve as ladder companies, but you really can’t climb and Aerialscope like you can a regular tower ladder. They work out fine for New York City’s needs however. Another thing to remember as a point of comparison is that New York City is more congested and densely populated, and many of their streets are narrower than in Chicago. The New York City Fire Department has 143 truck (ladder) companies of which 61 of them are tower ladders (Aerialscopes) while the Chicago Fire Department has 61 truck companies with only 10 tower ladders in service. So while Chicago and New York have their similarities, there is still a big difference in the size of the two cities and their fire departments.
#8 by Jeff on August 2, 2012 - 1:46 PM
Does anyone know why Chicago had never used the Seagrave Aerial-scope mid-mount tower ladders?? I thought that since New York has used them for so long, and they seem to be working for them….
Thanks
#9 by Bill Post on July 30, 2012 - 7:58 PM
Thanks for the information fleet guy. The best news that you gave us is that no houses will be closed. I hope it stays that way. As you probably know Engine 30’s house is the oldest operating fire house in the city. Here’s an interesting catch however. In 1964 and 1968 the Chicago Fire Department had hired a consultant who made specific recommendations as to where to build new fire stations, what companies to relocate and what companies to take out of service.
Most (but not all) of those recommended new fire stations were built even if some of them were built a few years behind schedule. One of the recommendations was to take Engine 30 out of service. Well, as you know Engine 30 stayed in service. That was one of the few engines that were kept in service back then. I believe that Engine 30 was kept due to local commercial support to keep the station open. That was in the late 1960s. By the mid 70s, the area just west of there had an arson rate that went thru the ceiling. So much so that that area was normally assigned three engine companies on still alarms. That was when still alarms normally would only get one truck, but Snorkel Squad 1 would automatically respond on the stills in that area as well.
Engine 24 was relocated to Engine 57 and Engine 51 was relocated to Engine 43 in July of 1976 making them both double engine stations for four years until the arson rate finally went down. Both Engines 24 and 51 were disbanded on June 14th 1980.
On January 1st 1992, Engine 20 was taken out of service which was surprising as Engines 20 and 30 were not more then a mile apart. Engine 20 was in a fire station that was about 55 years newer and a somewhat larger fire station then Engine 30’s quarters.
There used to be another couple of engine companies in that area as well. Engine 33 was located at 2208 N Clybourn until going out of service on August 1st 1969.
Engine 27 had shared quarters with Engine 4 from the time the station was opened on February 2 1960 until January 16th 1965 when Engine 27 was taken out of service. Until July of 1962 when Engine 14’s new station was opened, Engine 14 had been located at 509 W Chicago Avenue, only 5 blocks south of Engine 4 and Engine 27’s new station.
That’s good to hear that work will be done on Engine 4’s station next year. Perhaps for the time that Tower Ladder 10 will be running out of Engine 22’s house they could exchange the tower ladder with Truck 19 or Truck 3 which would better distribute tower ladder coverage for the area.
#10 by fleet guy on July 30, 2012 - 3:49 PM
Other curve ball to this question is this, Engine 4’s firehouse is slated to be rehabbed in 2013. The project will be financed with TIF funds. The talk of Tower Ladder 10 moving to Engine 22 will be just for the rehab, Engine 4 will also run out of 22 as well. Mr. Post is right, Tower’s 21 & 10 would be to close. Also the rest of the land around the old Cabrini Green site is being rebuilt with mixed income housing. A new Target store is being built at Halsted & Division. The Mayor has stated there will be no single engine houses anymore and no houses will be taken out of service. Don’t be surprised if an engine co is moved. There are alot of engine cos in that small area. Engines 30, 22, 14, 57, 55, 4 & 35. With 22 & 30 being single houses.
#11 by Matt Schumann on July 30, 2012 - 8:35 AM
Chicago FD E92 is still assigned the Freightliner Fl-80/ ALF Pumper
#12 by Bill Post on July 29, 2012 - 6:08 PM
Scott it’s true that Tower Ladder 10’s runs have gone down since the days of Cabrini Green. Of course many of those runs were for stuck elevators and incinerators. While I don’t have the latest statistics for 2011, I do know that in 2010 and 2009 Tower Ladder 10 had ranked in the low 30s as far as Truck company run rankings. That’s true of most of the trucks that covered the projects. Trucks 11 and 7 used to be very busy covering those types of runs also.
The only thing is that since 2004 the high-rise stills have been getting an automatic 4 truck response and the east end of Truck 10’s district which includes the Carl Sandberg Village on Clark street is overcrowded with high rises.
It would be interesting to see how many runs all of the trucks and engines would be getting with the EMS runs deducted from the totals.
#13 by Scott on July 29, 2012 - 1:18 PM
Since “the Green” is gone maybe thats why the move of the Tower, put the Tower where they could get in quicker. Tower 10 has slowed compared to the days of past…
#14 by Bill Post on July 29, 2012 - 1:42 AM
J how good is your source regarding the relocation of Tower Ladder 10? I don’t know whether you know this or not but back in the early 70s, within a year or two after Engine 22’s current station was opened, there was a rumor about moving Truck 10 (at the time) to Engine 22’s house; of course it never happened. Ambulance 43 was originally Ambulance 11 before it had become an ALS ambulance and they had been moved to Engine 22 from Engine 4’s house in late 1973.
From a logistical point of view, moving Tower Ladder 10 a mile further north to Engine 22 would put it a little too close to Tower Ladder 21. The FD generally tries to spread them out more, plus it would move Tower Ladder 10 further away from the Loop where they are the first-due tower ladder downtown. This move would put the tower ladder just over a mile south of Truck 44’s house and just a little less then 2 miles east of Truck 28. One of the things about Engine 22’s station is that not only is it a large station (which is why so many hazardous materials related rigs are located there), but it is also located not much more then a mile from two other large fire stations (Engines 4 and 55) not to mention Engine 35’s station to the west of Engine 22’s district.
If they were to relocate Tower Ladder 10 to Engine 22 then it might make more sense to give their tower ladder to a company that is closer to the Loop.
#15 by "J" on July 28, 2012 - 9:51 PM
5-1-11 is a mobile lab w/ a surprise inside…Tower Ladder #10 to Engine #22…more to follow…
#16 by Zack on July 28, 2012 - 11:28 AM
This is a side question, is E-92 still running with a freightliner?
#17 by Bill Post on July 27, 2012 - 6:18 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do with all of the newly freed space at Engine 22’s house.
I wonder if they are also going to move HazMat support unit 511A from Engine 60 into Engine 16’s new house?
#18 by fleet guy on July 26, 2012 - 11:37 PM
5-1-1 and all of Haz Mat equipment will be moving to E-16’s new house when its opens this fall