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Posts Tagged Ward LaFrance P80 engines in Chicago

Chicago 5-11 at 1520 S Indiana in 1974 (more)

May 5

Posted by Admin in Fire Department History, Historic Fire Photo | 7 Comments

This follow up from Steve Redick relates to a rent post Chicago 5-11 at 1520 S Indiana in 1974:

I sent this out a while back and just got some additional info to share. Old time fan Chuck Bleck was working in the insurance industry at the time and prepared an extensive diagram of the fire and was kind enough to share it. Chuck also sent a copy of the report in Turnout magazine from the fire as well as some other good old CFD info.
CFD Big John turret wagon

Warren Redick photo

information from historic 5-11 Alarm fire in Chicago

information from historic 5-11 Alarm fire in Chicago 

information from historic 5-11 Alarm fire in Chicago

map by Chuck Bleck

** a note to our younger readers who might be wondering about the odd looking type of the two summaries above … they were created with a typewriter

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Chicago 5-11 at 1520 S Indiana in 1974

Feb 12

Posted by Admin in Fire Department History, Fire Scene photos | 15 Comments

This from Steve Redick:

I returned from Arkansas with a lot of my dad’s collection. One of the things he had displayed on his wall was a series of 3 x 5 color prints from a 5-11 he and I were at in 1974. This was a cold storage warehouse and I recall it burned for days. I also remember at some point the building collapsed onto an adjacent structure causing the transmission of another extra alarm. We took it in well after the initial alarm and toured the fireground getting these shots of some classic rigs in action. The image with Big John in the background is probably one of the few images you will see with both guns working. Most times they couldn’t muster up the water supply to use both. Also note the 2000-GPM LaFrances often used both ports on the hydrant. They had an order that no other pumper was to share a hydrant with a 2,000-gallon rig, thus giving them the ability to use both steamer ports.

These photos were in horrendous condition … colors way off and faded. I was surprised at how much of the damaged images I was able to restore. They are far from perfect but at least they are now useable. I bet if I made them B&W they would be near perfect. Enjoy the history.

Steve

vintage Ward LaFrance fire engine in Chicago and Big John

Warren Redick photo

vintage fire engines in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage American LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage Ward LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage Seagrave fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage Mack CF Pirsch aerial ladder in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage American LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage Ward LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage Ward LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

vintage American LaFrance fire engine in Chicago

Warren Redick photo

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Chicago FD History – Ward LaFrance

Dec 27

Posted by Admin in Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus, Historic Fire Photo | 5 Comments

Images and information from Dave Fornell about some of Chicago’s Ward LaFrance apparatus:

I was going through my files and came across some photos of what I’ve always considered as one of my most favorite Chicago pumpers; the seven 1970, Ward LaFrance 2,000-GPM engines.  It is interesting to note that the rigs had Cummins NTF high-torque, 365-HP engines that were needed to power the two-stage Hale Q pumps.  The five trucks delivered the same year had less expensive Detroit 350-HP powerplants.

After the great snow in 1967, rigs were specified with rear-mounted, 20,000-lb hydraulic winches.  Both the engines and trucks sported these.  Ward LaFrance, a manufacturer whose performance can be described as somewhat spotty, did a great job on these rigs.  I was impressed by the brushed stainless steel pump layout and extremely expensive, but highly accurate, Crosby black face gauges that were provided on the panel.  Never seen these used before or since.

The rigs had relatively short wheelbases, but extended bodies behind the rear axle.  This body style was also used on Ford chassis pumpers purchased later.

The engines were joined by five trucks mounting 100′ Grove ladders.  With today’s NFPA ratings, the ladders, based on Grove 18-ton cranes, would be classified as heavy-duty, with 500-lb tip loads.  All of Chicago’s other ladders (ALF, Seagrave, Pirsch) purchased around that time would be medium-duty with 250-lb. tip load ratings.

The Grove ladders were massive and heavy–too heavy to be supported properly by a single axle. The rigs proved troublesome during their service lives with continuous brake and axle failures.  The fact that they also had a 300-gallon booster tank, pump, and twin reels didn’t help either.  On the other hand, take a look at the ground ladder compliment; 2 ea. 30′, 2 ea. 40′, a 50′, and 20′ carried under the turntable.  Three roof ladders were carried each side.

I remember climbing the main of one of these rigs at a fire where the operator positioned the tip about 12″ above the parapet, just like they did with the old wooden ladders that would then drift down as you climbed them. The Grove was rigid, and even with our entire engine stretching a line to the roof for point of vantage operation, that tip never dropped an inch nor did the ladder bounce as all the others did.

Circumstances caused me to come into possession of the original factory delivery photo negatives, which are reproduced here. I’ve also included photos I shot of the engines undergoing acceptance testing near McCormick Place, The rear views show the winch installation. Also note that the two rear discharges had 3-1/2″ boat hose threads (the rigs carried a 700′ bed of it).

When I was fanning on the West Side, Division 2 Chief Dan Lynch would always special call Engine 113 to drop the 3-1/2″ into a Snorkel when he had a still and box.

Two photos show the Grove ladder in operation.  The first is at the Bedford Hotel fire on the near West Side early in the 70s.  If my foggy recollection is correct, there were two extra alarms working in the city at the time when the Bedford fire hit, and no Snorkels were available.  2nd Deputy Bill Foley, who normally was in charge of the shops, took command.  That is the first time that I had ever seen two ladder pipes and no Snorkels working at an extra alarm fire in Chicago.

The second was shot at an extra alarm on the South Side, but its location is lost to history.  Another negative scanned at the same time shows Engine 63 operating, so maybe someone can identify the company.

Hope everyone had a great Christmas.

ACD

 

Chicago Ward LaFrance fire truck

Dave Fornell collection

Chicago Ward LaFrance fire engine

Dave Fornell collection

Chicago Ward LaFrance fire engine

Dave Fornell collection

Chicago Ward LaFrance fire engine

Dave Fornell collection

Ward LaFrance fire engine

Bill Friedrich collection

Ward LaFrance fire engines delivered to Chicago

Bill Friedrich collection

Ward LaFrance Grove ladder truck

Bill Friedrich collection

Historic Chicago fire scene at the Bedford Hotel

Dave Fornell collection

Classic Chicago fire scene with Grove aerial ladde

Dave Fornell collection

More on the CFD Ward LaFrance apparatus is HERE and by entering Ward LaFrance in the search field

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Chicago Ward LaFrance/Ranger/EONE (part 3)

Sep 23

Posted by bgshap in Collectors of fire memorabilia, Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus, Reader submission | 12 Comments

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The following is the third of a 3-part series from Dave Weaver, organizer of the Chicagoland Emergency Vehicle Show  www.EmergencyVehicleShow.com

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Details about the Engine 17 rig developments are being discussed on the Chicagoland Emergency Vehicle Show Facebook page. Interested potential buyers can send a private message to Facebook.com/ChicagolandEmergencyVehicleShow or to the comments section of this post.
Chicago Fire Department engine from the movie Backdraft

CFD Engine 69 with numbering for both Backdraft Engines 17 and 51. Tom McCarthy photo

Where they went…
  • 80-287/D-372 E126 – rehabbed to E122 – Crushed in Blue Island in 1994
  • 80-288/D-373 E73 – to E103 4/2/81 – (not rehabbed) – Crushed at Cicero Iron in 1984
  • 80-289/D-374 E8 – rehabbed to E17/51/69 – Sold to Erickson Trucks-n-Parts 8/28/96
  • 80-290/D-375 E106 – rehabbed to E113 – Sold to Erickson Trucks-n-Parts 9/4/96
  • 80-291/D-376 E22 – rehabbed to E46 – Sold to Erickson Trucks-n-Parts 9/9/96 (crushed)
  • 80-292/D-377 E113 – this rig then saw a lot of action as a Shop’s spare at T61, O’Hare, E34, E19, E109, and E72 – rehabbed to E14 – Sold to Erickson Trucks-n-Parts 8/29/96
  • 80-293/D-378 E49 – rehabbed to E34 – Sold to a private party – Sold to PA FD
Chicago FD engine used in the movie Backdraft

Engine 17 on 4-4-2004.

E17’s current condition…
  • The owner estimates that 75% of the rig is there with 20% of the parts needing to be purchased and 5% of the parts needing fabrication.
  • It has a complete Cummins NTF 365 Turbo-Diesel (365hp @ 2300 rpm).
  • It is missing an Allison HT70 6-speed overdrive transmission.
  • It is missing $1,100 worth of copper radiator cores – originally Mesabi radiator of MN
  • It has a Hale Q-2 2,000-GPM pump that is non-functional, but comes with a replacement PTO gear box, some pump valves and pump gauges stripped from E14 that can be rebuilt by SPAN gauges in WI with period correct backings for $30/ea. and a new pump gasket set from Hale.
  • It has a 500-gallon water tank and a 140-gallon foam tank that was added during the refurb.
  • It has a 50-gallon diesel tank.
  • It is 35′ long with a 178” wheelbase.
  • The original grille was stripped from the rig but replaced by a top-notch reproduction.
  • It has its’ original deck gun.
  • It needs diamond plate and steel work but comes with the refurb blueprints from E-ONE.
  • It has original Imron paint but could be repainted with a close matching 68-69 Dodge red.
  • It includes 500 feet of 5-inch LDH.
  • It includes functional lights, sirens, horns, and a period correct Motorola radio.
    Chicago FD engine from the movie Backdraft

    Engine 17 photographed 9-15-2012.

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Chicago Ward LaFrance/Ranger/EONE (part 2)

Sep 22

Posted by bgshap in Collectors of fire memorabilia, Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus, Reader submission | 1 Comment

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The following is the second of a 3-part series from Dave Weaver, organizer of the Chicagoland Emergency Vehicle Show  www.EmergencyVehicleShow.com

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In 1990, X-Engine 8 (D-374) along with its sister rig X-Engine 106 (D-375), were part of the 2nd set of rigs sent to be rehabbed. They were the last two rigs to come back in June of 1990. D-374 and D-375 were both leased to the production company that created the movie Backdraft. D-374 was marked as Engine 17 from 7/90-2/91 and as Engine 51 from 10/90-2/91 (the rig whose hose bed saw “action” inside Engine 8’s house). During filming, the Engine 17 interior shots and the majority of the exterior shots were done using X-Engine 8. X-Engine 106 was also marked as Engine 17 during certain scenes. A way to tell the difference is that Engine 8’s interior had diamond plate and was painted gloss black, while Engine 106 had a flat black interior with no diamond plate. Another difference is that X-Engine 106’s siren speaker was mounted higher up in front of the windshield glass.
CFD engine from the movide Backdraft

The cab interior.

When filming was completed, D-374 was assigned to Engine 69 at 4017 N. Tripp Ave. Engine 69 was responsible for pumping out the basement of City Hall during the Great Flood of 1992.  It was part of Chicago’s short-lived super-pumper program, which carried four hard suction lines and 1000′ of 5″ LDH. Its’ 140-gallon foam tank was installed with expressway responses in mind. Engine 69 was taken out of service on 6/13/95. Engine 69’s transmission/PTO box was removed in order to keep Engine 34 in service after they blew out their gears while driving. On 8/28/96, Engine 69 was sold at auction and purchased by Erickson Trucks-n-Parts.  It was first shipped to their yard in Sturtevant, WI and it eventually arrived in their Jackson, MN bone yard in 1997. It was discovered there by its current owner in 1999. He eventually purchased it in 2003 and began its restoration.
CFD Engine from the movie Backdraft

Backdraft Engine 17 on the day it was purchased.

After filming, X-Engine 106 (D-375) was assigned to Engine 113. It also eventually was sold at auction to Erickson Trucks-n-Parts and made its way to the Jackson, MN bone yard to sit alongside Engine 69. Engine 113 is currently in the hands of a friend of Engine 69’s current owner, but it is in very rough shape and might possibly end up as a parts rig for the Engine 17 project. Engine 14 (X-E113) also ended up in Jackson, MN. It was completely stripped of salvageable parts, had its cab chopped off, and then shredded.
CFD engine from the movie Backdraft

December 20, 2003.

Engine 34 (X-Engine 49), which never saw time in Backdraft, was made into an Engine 17 clone before being sold in 1999 or 2000 to the East Norwegian Twp. PA FD where, until recently, it had been incorrectly touted as authentic. That rig was spotted for sale online stripped of it markings a couple of years ago and its current whereabouts are unknown.
CFD engine from the movie Backdraft.

Rear jump seat behind the officer.

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Chicago Ward LaFrance/Ranger/EONE (part 1)

Sep 21

Posted by bgshap in Collectors of fire memorabilia, Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus, Reader submission | 3 Comments

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The following is the first of a 3-part series from Dave Weaver, organizer of the Chicagoland Emergency Vehicle Show  www.EmergencyVehicleShow.com

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Chicago Fire Department Engine 17 on the set of the movie Backdraft

Chicago Fire Department Engine 17 on the set of the movie Backdraft. (X-Engine 69).

Engine 17 from the movie ‘Backdraft’ is for sale. A private collector in Minnesota has decided to let his project go for $6,000 with the condition that it receives a Chicago homecoming in the hands of the individual or group that is most capable of completing the restoration, and willing to make the rig available for parades and shows such as the Chicago Fire Academy Muster and the Chicagoland Emergency Vehicle Show. As of 9/19, there are several potential buyers who have offered to take on the project, but nothing is finalized yet.
 During the course of researching the history of this rig I have put together some notes…
Chicago purchased seven, 1970 Ward LaFrance engines on the P80 Ambassador chassis. These carried WLF VIN#s 80-287 to 80-293. They were shipped from Elmira Heights, NY on 6/30/70, and arrived at the CFD shops on 7/2/70 to begin prepping for assignment.
1970 Ward LaFrance Ambassador pumper assigned to Chicago Fire Department Engine 8

Steve Redick photo

 The engine with VIN# 80-289 was given CFD shop #D-374. It was originally marked as Engine 103 and delivered for service on 12/8/70, but the doorway was too narrow for the massive engine to pass through it without folding back the mirrors. It was reassigned to Engine 8 the next day at 212 W. Cermak Rd. in Chinatown, where it served until 1982.  It went to the CFD Shops for rehabbing from 9/2/80 until Feb 1981. In 1982, D-374 became a Shop’s spare.
 In 1989, the CFD sent the first set of 1970 WLFs to be rehabbed. They were sent to Able Fire Equipment Co., an Emergency-One dealer, in Frankfort. (Able later became Mid-America Truck in Elmhurst) The front of the engines received a Ranger cab manufactured in Rhode Island (now out of business). The back half was a classic E-ONE job.
Chicago Fire Department Engine 69

CFD Engine 69 after the rehab in 1995.

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CFD Apparatus History – Ward LaFrance

May 8

Posted by bgshap in Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus | 5 Comments

To supplement our multi-part series on the Ward LaFrance apparatus used by the CFD, Bill Friedrich has submitted copies of the 1970 Ward LaFrance sell sheets/brochures featuring these units. Previous posts can be found HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE.

Ward LaFrance 1970 brochure with Chicago engines

This Ward LaFrance brochure features a shot of all seven Ward LaFrance 2,000-GPM engines for Chicago in 1970. Bill Friedrich collection

Ward LaFrance 1970 brochure with Chicago engines

All sides of a 1970 Ward LaFrance 2,000-GPM engine for Chicago with complete specifications. Bill Friedrich collection

Ward LaFrance 1970 brochure with Chicago ladder trucks

Both sides of a 1970 Ward LaFrance/Grove 100' ladder truck. These had 300-gallon booster tanks, Hale 2CBP booster pumps, Grove 4S-100 ladders, and "many other items of special equipment.". Bill Friedrich collection

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CFD Apparatus History – Ward LaFrance (1969)

Apr 3

Posted by bgshap in Fire Department History, Fire Service News, Historic fire apparatus | 1 Comment

Chicago received two Ward LaFrance engines in 1969. Both Model P80 units had 1,000-GPM pumps and 500-gallon water tanks. One was assigned to Engine 45 (D-347) and the other to Engine 83 (D-358). Engine 83’s unit was later assigned as a spare R-2.

Chicago Fire Department 1969 Ward LaFrance Model P80 Ambassador engine 83

Chicago Engine 83 was assigned a 1969 Ward LaFrance Model P80 engine with an Ambassador cab. One of only two units built in 1969 for the city. Jack Connors photo

This engine featured a cab that was similar to the 1,000-GPM engine purchased in 1967 without the extended bumper, and no floodlights were on this series. Unlike the 1967 unit though, these  had a bell mounted under the officer’s windshield and a siren in the center of the cab’s face.

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CFD Apparatus History – Ward LaFrance (1967)

Apr 1

Posted by bgshap in Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus | Comments off

In 1967, the Chicago Fire Department was badly in need of new engines. They looked to Ward LaFrance for assistance in acquiring what they had available. Chicago received four engines. One was assigned to Engine 42 (D-327) with a 1,000-GPM pump and 500 gallons of water. (this would later be re-assigned to Engine 46)

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine

Engine 42 was assigned this 1967 Ward LaFrance with a 1,000-GPM pump and 500-gallon tank. Initially, the unit numbers were fairly small on the driver's door. George Brown collection

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine

The officer's side of Engine 42's 1967 Ward LaFrance engine when it was delivered. Jack Connors photo

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine 46

Shop #D-327 was later reassigned to Engine Company 46. Large company number decals were added to the engine. Jack Connors photo

The other three units were delivered with 1,250-GPM pumps and 350-gallon water tanks and were assigned to Engine 34 (D-332), Engine 54 (D-333), and Engine 11 (D-334).

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine 34

Engine 34 received one of three 1967 Ward LaFrance pumpers with the larger 1,250-GPM pump and a smaller water tank. This image was taken after the shops added white decals that made the company unit number easier to read. Jack Connors photo

These units differed from the first piece that went to Engine 42. The body is taller, the pump panel has a polished backing instead of being painted and there are no flood lights. The cab has several different features including an extended bumper with a bell, siren, and front intake. The cab face underneath the windshield is covered with a panel to protect the paint from being scratched. Additionally, the rear of the cab canopy has a completely different shape than the earlier and subsequently later styles as well.

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine 54

This shot of Engine 54 shows the officer's side of the 1,250-GPM series engines from 1967. Jack Connors photo

Shop #D-333 which was originally assigned to Engine 54 was later assigned to Engine 99 and then again to Engine 107. Unlike the other 1,250-GPM engines, this rig was delivered with one flood light.

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine 98

CFD Shop #D-334 was originally assigned to Engine 11 and then to Engine 98 as shown here. Note also the CFD scramble on the lower portion of the driver's door and the company number under the windshield. Jack Connors photo

Chicago Fire Department history Ward LaFrance 1967 Engine 107

CFD Shop #D-334 was assigned for a third time to Engine Company 107. The hard suction trays have been raised to accommodate hose storage on the shelf above the lower compartments. Jack Connors photo

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CFD Apparatus History – Ward LaFrance (1973)

Mar 28

Posted by bgshap in Fire Department History, Historic fire apparatus | Comments off

Part 3 in the series covering Ward LaFrance and the Chicago Fire Department:

In 1973, Chicago received an additional five Ward LaFrance P80 Ambassador engines. Four of these had 1,500-GPM pumps and were assigned to Engine 23 (D-389), Engine 29 (D-390), Engine 57 (D-391), and Engine 67 (D-392). The remaining engine had a 1,750-GPM pump and went to Engine 74 (D-393). All had 500-gallon water tanks.

Engine 74 with the 1,750-GPM pump had several differences in trim design which gave it a different look than the other 1973 models. The pump panel was painted red and did not have the polished panel like the other units. In addition, the wide steel band which wrapped the front doors and cab face of the other units was omitted from Engine 74.

Unlike the units which came in 1970, these engines had the large company numbers relegated to the rear compartment and another number was on the cab face. Also, “Chicago Fire Dept.” was now lettered on both sides of the cab under the jump-seat window as well as on the cab roof over the windshield. The handrail at the back of the cab no longer ran the full width as these engines had a multi-versal that was stored on the roof.

Chicago Fire Department 1973 Ward LaFrance Ambassador P80 engine 23

Chicago Engine 23 was assigned shop #D-389. Steve Redick photo

Chicago Fire Department 1973 Ward LaFrance Ambassador P80 engine 29

This image of Engine 29 shows the officer's side of the 1973 Ward LaFrance Model 80 engines that were built with the Ambassador series cab. Jack Connors photo

Chicago Fire Department Engine 57 1973 Ward LaFrance Ambassador

Engine 57 had one of four 1973 Ward LaFrance Ambassador engines with a 1,500-GPM pump. Larry Shapiro photo

Chicago Fire Department 1973 Ward LaFrance Ambassador P80 engine 67

Engine 67 received one of the five units delivered by Ward LaFrance in 1973. Jack Connors photo

Chicago Fire Department Engine 74 Ward LaFrance

Chicago Engine 74 had a 1973 Ward LaFrance engine that varied slightly from the others. It had a 1,750-GPM pump and slightly different body styling. Larry Shapiro photo

Shop #D-393, the one unit with a 1,750-GPM pump that was originally assigned to Engine Company 74, was later reassigned to Engine 104.

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