VILLAGE OF DOWNERS GROVE
Report for the Village
10/3/2023
SUBJECT: SUBMITTED BY:
Authorization for the Purchase of a Replacement Engine/Pumper
Scott Spinazola Fire Chief
SYNOPSIS
A Resolution has been prepared to authorize the execution of an agreement with MacQueen Emergency for the purchase of a 2026 Pierce Impel Pumper Apparatus (Pierce Engine/Pumper) in the amount of $1,009,548.00 plus a $100,000.00 contingency for a total not to exceed amount of $1,109,548.00, and to authorize the disposal of the Village’s current 2008 Pierce Engine/Pumper.
STRATEGIC PLAN ALIGNMENT
The goals for 2023-2025 include Steward of Financial, Environmental and Neighborhood Sustainability. FISCAL IMPACT
The final purchase price for the Pierce Engine/Pumper is $1,109,548.00, which includes a $100,000.00 contingency. The amount of this purchase will be included in the proposed FY26 budget, when it is anticipated the Village will take possession of and pay for the Pierce Engine/Pumper. The funding plan for the Equipment Replacement Fund anticipates this purchase in FY26.
RECOMMENDATION
Approval on the October 3, 2023 Consent Agenda.
BACKGROUND
The Village purchased its current Pierce Engine/Pumper in 2008. The pumper is an essential apparatus and serves multiple functions including but not limited to EMS responses, carry tools for fire suppression activities, pumping water from a stored tank or from a fire hydrant through the use of fire hose and/or relaying water to other fire apparatus. The pumper will be located at Station 105 at 6701 Main Street to optimize its response time. Once this engine is delivered the Village will dispose of the 2008 Pierce Engine/Pumper.
New engine for Downers Grove
From the October 3rd, 2023 Downers Grove Village Council meeting
thanks Daniel
#1 by Drew Smith on October 8, 2023 - 7:43 PM
I cannot say with any degree of certainty why prices are so high now but there are things known. In no specific order: 1) With delivery times 3-4 years out those vehicles will need to have the the newer motors with further emissions reduction that comply with the EPA’s requirement that they be warrantied for 480,000 miles. For an over-the-road truck, that may only be a few years. In the fire service, that’s a lifetime warranty. At FDIC this year multiple sources presenting on apparatus stated manufacturers are adding at least $100,000 to the sale price to cover potential future loss due to the warranty requirement. 2) How do you set a price for something to be delivered 3-4 years out when you don’t know the cost of labor and materials that far out? You do so by speculating. No manufacturer is going to be conservative and risk a loss. 3) If you build capacity now to speed up and take care of any backlog, what do you do with the workforce when you’re caught up? 4) It isn’t as if there is a large pool anywhere of skilled tradespeople who can build this apparatus. Unemployment is at an all-time low. I am sure there is more to the story but those are my thoughts as someone who must live with the market at it is.
#2 by Chuck on October 7, 2023 - 7:31 PM
Pierce and MacQueen are giggling all the way to the bank. You’d think at some point somebody would catch on and say enough already with this b.s. and look elsewhere. This makes it seem like Pierce is the only apparatus builder in the country. And this 10% “contingency” seems like nonsense, too. “Is this the contracted price?” “Well, maybe.” Seems like that’s an open invitation to shenanigans that’ll make that extra money magically vanish.
#3 by Jeremy B. on October 7, 2023 - 3:12 PM
It was part of their 9/5 board meeting – it was ordered to replace the 2012 that is currently Engine 3. They have another one on order for Engine 4, which is expected to be delivered in mid-2024 after being ordered in 2022.
#4 by Michael m on October 7, 2023 - 10:59 AM
Arlington Heights 2027, when did they order it? I am guessing it will replace Engine 4 which will be 18 years old by the time the new engine arrives. At some point, they will have to replace the 2012 that engine 3 has.
#5 by Michael m on October 7, 2023 - 10:54 AM
How much of what is going on with apparatus today, might have something to do with the fact that departments are trying to get apparatus replaced before the 2027 engine requirements kick in. If I had to guess, once 2027 rolls around, apparatus orders will drop sharply.
#6 by Jeremy B. on October 6, 2023 - 7:39 PM
As another example, Arlington Heights has an Impel on order too. The price is about $100k more than this, and it has a 2027 delivery date. It’s crazier when you consider that the Impel is the “budget-friendly” model, to the “premium” Velocity.
I agree it’s not the supply chain at this point, more backlog if anything (I guess it could be staffing too), and it’s putting agencies into the place where they order 44 months in advance, out of anxiety of not being able to get a shorter time frame order in the future. And as long as demand is still higher than supply, they’ll keep their price increases. I don’t know if there’s really a way for them to cut the backlog other than getting a new facility running with more staff or adding shifts(?) (not sure how they work already).
Though it’s just starting, and regardless of your thoughts on it, the UAW strike is inevitably going to have some kind of effect on the fire/police vehicle market with Ford Explorer production being shut down, and if it keeps going on, I could see it affecting the ambulance market at some point. Who knows how much those will go up, and their delivery length if they’re already messed up?
#7 by Mike C on October 6, 2023 - 5:27 PM
Without question, there is still issues with supply!! There are apparatus builders delivering rigs without ladders because you can’t get them! It wasn’t that long ago it was hard to get Whelen light heads! The supply chain issues we have are real and haven’t gone away. Without question, things have stabilized but it’s hard enough to get a Cummins engine!
In terms of “robbery”, have you seen the price increase on raw material?? It’s outrageous! I think many would be surprised to see actual profit margin on new apparatus. It’s not as high as you might think especially after warranty claims.
The timeframe of seeing this engine is 2026 seems quite aggressive. Pierce lead time is every bit of 3 years plus more!!
#8 by ttguy on October 6, 2023 - 4:21 PM
I’d be willing to bet that if you broke this spec. down into (3) categories: 1) Pure fluff, 2) Options that may be nice to have but aren’t entirely necessary, 3) Must have options needed to accomplish the task at hand, you’d see an interesting analysis. Needless to say, eliminating items in category “1” and “2” would result in a significant cost reduction. Not trying to single out Downers Grove, as nearly every governmental body supported by tax dollars these days seems to have gotten too comfortable spending other people’s money.
#9 by crabbymilton on October 6, 2023 - 12:01 PM
But then again, PIERCE isn’t holding guns to the head of fire departments.
Like the geezer who won’t buy anything but a FORD product even if FORD no longer builds a type of product, the old man will still buy i even if it isn’t what he wants or the vehicle is crap. Taking a generic approach to show PIERCE that they actually have competition might get the prices down perhaps just a little but it would be a start.
#10 by Austin on October 6, 2023 - 10:48 AM
A lot of this supply chain talk isn’t even a thing anymore. While there still supply chain issues in some industries, a lot of them have been solved. Companies like Pierce as an example are owned by conglomerates, who want to keep that extra money and will never drop their prices unless there is a massive recession or fire departments stop buying new apparatus. I have no clue if Pierce/Oshkosh still are having these issues, they might. But even if they don’t, there is no incentive for them to ever drop their prices.
#11 by FFPM571 on October 5, 2023 - 10:42 PM
This is replacing the old Pierce Impel that was originally Engine 1 and then Engine 3 where it was damaged and repaired in a high water ” Incident” it has been in reserve for a few years since the purchase of the Ferrara engine That was the replacement for it at Station 103 is now at station 105
#12 by Mike on October 5, 2023 - 9:14 PM
1.1 million for an engine. Good grief. When the supply chain garbage ends don’t count on prices ever coming down. I’m wondering how departments are going to budget for new equipment when prices have gone up over 100% from a few years ago. I get the “supply” issues but this is outright robbery.