chicagoareafire.com

20 Comments

• #1 by Rusty on April 3, 2023 - 8:26 PM

  

  Craig you are spot on. What makes this even more comical is that it’s Pierce’s cookie cutter cab- Enforcer and 1/8 inch formed aluminum body on top of it. I would venture out on a limb, for the 920k you get an Enforcer Chassis and an L9 Engine.

  How can they price the Cummins X10 @ $148,000.00? The X10 is not going to be out until 2026 or 2027 and that will go in the over the road trucks first. It won’t even be tested until most likely 2027 in Fire Trucks. Do you think Cummins would raise their prices on the Engine 200% when they switch to the X10? No they won’t because, that price increase would have to go to Firetrucks, Semi’s, Concrete Mixers, Delivery Trucks and the Commercial Truck Industry wouldn’t stand for it. The Commercial Guys in Semi’s don’t blindly pay 250k more for a tractor with the same offering because they are accountable to some bean counter. Not alot of people care about the Tax Payers. Also, why would Cummins introduce a new product that People are already skeptical of it being a new engine? Doesn’t sound like a keen marketing move.

  The thing people don’t understand on pumpers—-especially pumpers. All Manufacturers offer the same X15,X12,and L9 Engines. Same Waterous or Hale Pump, Aluminum or Stainless Body. On aerials its a little different between manufacturers. You can get steel aerial or aluminum. There are advantages to both materials.

  This is no different than Ford offering a F-150 Crew Cab XLT for 92,000.00 and Chevrolet offering a Silverado Crew Cab LT for $45,000.00 b/c Ford is the number 1 car/truck sold in the US. Pierce is putting people over a barrel because THEY CAN! Very few people in the fire world understand that it is a Cummins Engine not a Cummings.

• #2 by Craig Mack on April 3, 2023 - 6:04 PM

  

  Also, there are definitely HME spare tower ladders running around as well as spare engines. The last of the companies got rid of them as front line rigs only but a couple years ago. While they were designed with a horribly small cab size (by CFDs choosing at the time) they stayed on the roads for decades. Same with the luvergnes and hell, even the early spartans that are still rolling, and none of those manufacturers today charge what Pierce does. Its a designer brand, and all the other manufacturers can design and build custom rigs for much cheaper. Same vehicle capabilities, same materials, different prices.

• #3 by Craig Mack on April 3, 2023 - 5:59 PM

  

  Im still waiting to learn from these experts here on what makes one rig “cheaper” than another. And yes Cicero did get a demo first, and are building their second for same price. Please keep the comedy up, it’s truly entertaining watching people defend a $920k fire engine purchase “because its just better…it just is”

• #4 by DENNIS on April 3, 2023 - 12:24 PM

  

  Austin, you do know that not every piece of the apparatus is built by the manufacture. So, you when you add up the ” 8% ” to every component then it explains the price increase. Just recently, I believe it was pierce or Seagrave, had to shut down the 3rd shift at their plant because there are not enough workers to keep the shift online. That again raises prices because you have to pay the employees. I would give you a break down Austin so you can better understand how business and the economy work if you like.

• #5 by DENNIS on April 3, 2023 - 12:19 PM

  

  Craig Mack, there are no HME/Luverne’s in Chicago any longer, they were a horrible design and constant mechanical problems. The pierce ladder trucks are some of the best we have in the city and none of them are rusting out. The bodies along with the cabs are all aluminum. Only the ladder is metal which do have some rust because… wait for it… we use them constantly and its CHICAGO. it rains, snows, and it gets hot and cold. The Calumet Park engine, and the Sutphen engines for cicero were demos hence the huge price difference. If some of you that do not understand the difference between custom built and demo built, then there’s no point in continuing the conversation. Also if you don’t understand why certain size towns don’t buy the cheaper brands then again there’s no reason to keep going because you don’t understand the difference between an Alexis or Toyne compared to Seagrave or Pierce. I also see none of you three acknowledging my statement about your cars at home because you know exactly what I am.

• #6 by Craig Mack on April 2, 2023 - 11:13 PM

  

  Wayne- please explain “cheaping out”

  I would like to know what benefit a town gets from ordering say a Pierce over another manufacturer that costs much less yet meets the same spec. CFD has HME/Luvernes running around that were made in the early 90s while their Pierce ladders are rotting out.

  I don’t think ciceros new engines from Sutphen are “cheaping out” and will last just as long as something that costs $300k more for no reason other than the badge on it.

• #7 by Wayne on April 2, 2023 - 9:28 PM

  

  Dennis is right, sure Cal Park can buy a rig for dirt cheap, but is it what the town needs? I actually think Harry of all people probably hit the nail on the head with his comment about towns remounting and refurbishing rigs. The problems Pierce is having, that E-One is having, that Spartan is having, aren’t going away. Towns are going to have to get creative or spend money to get good rigs. Cheaping out and buying nonsense isn’t helping anyone.

• #8 by Mike C on April 2, 2023 - 3:59 PM

  

  Austin – Who are “the big 3 apparatus makers”?

• #9 by Craig Mack on April 2, 2023 - 11:53 AM

  

  Bingo Austin! Cal Park just got an engine in the $500k range. Cicero just got 2 engines for around $600k…there’s options out there besides P, S, or E…and they work just as well, hell maybe better. Thats not a complaint, thats just a fact.

  As for Dennis, I love people that get on the comments to complain about people “complaining” in the comments. LMAO

• #10 by Austin on April 2, 2023 - 10:09 AM

  

  Dennis inflation is not that much to cause the price to go up by that large of an amount. The inflation average is around 8%, which does not match the price of this engine. Also who was talking about commercial chassis? By designer I would assume Craig means the big 3 apparatus makers. You can buy an Alexis on a Spartan chassis for a lot less than this. There are lots of smaller manufactures who use a chassis made for apparatus, and aren’t charging an arm and a leg. Peirce is part of Oshkosh which is a conglomerate, and they care more about getting government contracts and pleasing share holders, which means trying to get as much profit as possible. If you don’t want to see people complain or question how a town is spending its money, don’t read the comments. That way you won’t get angry and go on rants how you don’t like everyone who comments.

• #11 by DENNIS on April 1, 2023 - 5:45 PM

  

  All of you complaining about the cost obviously have not bought anything in the past year or so. EVERYTHING has gone up, that’s called inflation. There’s no conspiracy’s going on. For those that say why spend the money on ” designer”, whatever that means, chassis instead of buying something on a commercial chassis have never worked on both a custom and a commercial chassis. Could they do the rock bottom job yes of course but when it comes to purpose and overall wear and tear it makes no sense for a city like Lombard to buy a commercial chassis rig. No matter what you buy these days its expensive. I’ll bit each of those complaining have cars less than 120 years old and I’ll bit more that each of you have vehicles that are not the bottom of line stripped down versions. Stop coming on here complaining about EVERYTHING, and ANYTHING just to complain. Its getting tiresome and those of us that actually want to come on here to read about updates don’t want to constantly see the complaining.

• #12 by Joe Smith on April 1, 2023 - 4:26 PM

  

  It wasn’t that long ago that a pumper could be purchased for under $100K and would be in front line service for 20 years or more, then in reserve for several more years. Some upgrades, such as 4 door cabs, have been well worthwhile, EPA and other government regulations are unavoidable, and I understand inflation, but this degree of price increase still seems excessive. With the budget problems that affect many communities, this trend is unsustainable. Eventually, even good used apparatus will become unaffordable, and we will hit a brick wall.

• #13 by Harry on April 1, 2023 - 1:25 PM

  

  Or towns can start keeping stuff longer for instance Skokie IL is a busy dept and has many rigs 20+ years old and has done partial and full rehabs and remember old isn’t bad

• #14 by Craig Mack on April 1, 2023 - 11:03 AM

  

  If you look at other manufacturers that aren’t “designer ” brands, you’ll find that you can find normally priced apparatus. Buying from these manufacturers is either vanity, gluttony, or a combination of both.

  If this was some specialized piece of equipment for a refinery or some crazy super pumper set up, I could understand. But as far as I know, the buildings and water supply is the same in Lombard as it is anywhere else. If you show up in a rig costing half that, pull hose off it, and send water through the hose, the same job will be accomplished.

• #15 by Austin on April 1, 2023 - 8:59 AM

  

  If this becomes the norm of having an engine cost around one million, it is going to price a huge portion of departments out of buying new equipment. Lombard is lucky that they have a pretty good tax base, but a lot don’t. It would probably be better for some to buy a solid used piece of apparatus, than new. Also is supply chain issues still that big of a thing? Shipping is more or less back to normal, covid related stuff is basically non existent, and I’m sure Pierce gets a lot of material from over seas. It almost seems like a money grab, and are using old excuses to justify the high price.

• #16 by Craig Mack on April 1, 2023 - 12:30 AM

  

  I think Pierce makes a fine product, but taxpayers shouldn’t be spending almost a mil on an engine. There’s way more options out there that would work just as good. This is flagrant misuse of the publics trust/money in the name of vanity.

• #17 by The DH on March 31, 2023 - 9:04 PM

  

  Michael M – the 2010 is already in reserve. It’ll be the current E45 that will be replaced.

• #18 by Michael m on March 31, 2023 - 7:30 PM

  

  With the 2007 gone, which one will become the reserve? Will it be the 2010?

• #19 by Mike hellmuth on March 31, 2023 - 6:44 PM

  

  Wow!!!!!!!!! When will the price increase on everything somehow get reasonable again if ever,……….

• #20 by Mike on March 31, 2023 - 4:01 PM

  

  LOL… almost a million dollars for an engine.. they didn’t even use lube when this deal got signed… due to expected EPA regulations we foresee 140,000.00 increase….Right, sounds legit. Why are none of the other manufacturers saying this? Because it’s a scam and all the kool aid drinkers are just swallowing it.

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