The Niles Fire Department is awaiting the delivery of two new units.
- In mid-June Niles is expecting delivery of a 100′ RM Pierce PUC tower ladder on a Dash CF chassis to match their latest engine. The ladder will be painted black
Marty Feld photo
Marty Feld photo
Marty Feld photo
Marty Feld photo
- In July, Niles will take delivery of an IHC 4300/Horton Type I ambulance.
#1 by DMc77 on July 3, 2014 - 10:20 PM
Wow that thing is a wicked beast! They may miss the days of the tillered apparatus in Niles….
#2 by douglas on July 3, 2014 - 3:45 PM
I saw the picture of their new tower go to flicker pierce mfg or https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/piercemfg/14559338404/ to the pic of their new tower ladder
#3 by RPF on July 3, 2014 - 2:39 PM
How’s the Tower Ladder working out Niles? It was supposed to show up in mid June…. How’s it handling all the EMS and false alarms? And those tight streets…. Overhead wires … Tree lined streets?
#4 by douglas on June 28, 2014 - 7:44 AM
When is this rig coming i would like to see it and its already late June early July
#5 by tom sullivan on June 5, 2014 - 6:27 AM
there is a mosaic memorial to jack walsh in front of e-55’s house, where snk. 7 was from. it was originally at the park but was moved due to vandalism.
both towers and straight aerial have strong & weak points. straight aerial trucks are generally smaller overall, easier to maneuver, especially in areas where there are viaducts, and tight intersections. tower rigs are more mechanically complex, require more preventative maintenance to hydraulic systems. straight ladders are quicker to put to a roof, particularly a pitched one, and getting through, under / over trees, power lines, etc.
towere ladders have great capability for various types of rescues, and of course elevated streams. a mixed fleet is the way to go. the overuse of tower ladders for everyday running, particularly ems. alarm checks, etc. leads to early wear out.
way back when,,, aerial ladders could be used to rapidly vent windows at the front of multi- story buildings. although never a sanctioned or recommended practice, “punching” the windows was often done. with todays ladders, usually with mounted lights, speakers, etc this is not possible . that operation was not without it’s risks, damage to aerials could, (and did) occur if not careful.
the old straight aerials from seagrave, pirsch, alf, etc were real workhorses.
#6 by Bill Post on June 4, 2014 - 10:31 PM
Sorry but as long as I’m making corrections firefighter John Walsh died on August 16th 1970. Apparently I got the month number mixed up with the day of the month.
#7 by Bill Post on June 4, 2014 - 10:18 PM
This is a correction. Firefighter Thomas Collier of the Los Angeles City FIre Department may not have been a Captain but it doesn’t lessen the tragedy that occured on July 5th 1970 in Los Angeles.
#8 by Bill Post on June 4, 2014 - 10:11 PM
Yes Mike I heard the same thing about what happened in Los Angeles City when their full sized (85 foot Snorkel) had tipped over in downtown LA. Los Angeles City had 2 85 foot Snorkels at old Station 3 (the one that flipped over) and at old Station 27. After the accident Snorkel 27 was also taken out of service and from then on the full sized Snorkels were banned by the LA City fire department. I also understand that one of the out riggers wasn’t fully extended on Snorkel 3 when it flipped over.
They continued running with their 4, 50 foot Pumper/Snorkels that were part of their “Heavy Duty Task Forces” which had consisted 3 pumpers (2 of which were fully manned and 1 was attached to the Truck company like today’s conventional Task Forces are. In 1978 their 5 Heavy Duty Task Forces were taken out of service in an economy move and their 4 50 foot Snorkels plus one Squirt were eliminated from the Heavy Duty Task forces. A few of those Snorkels and the Squirt were reassigned to other conventional Task Forces in the City and a few of them had the Snorkels removed and were converted to standard Engine companies.
Ironically and tragically a little less then 9 years after the Snorkel accident in Los Angeles when Captain Thomas Collier was killed when Snorkel 3 flipped over on July 5th 1970, Firefighter Thomas Phillips was killed on April 25th 1979 when the Ladder Pipe and attached hose had come loose from the Aerial Ladder that he was working on and knocked him off of the Ladder.
The Los Angeles City fire department didn’t ban the use of Ladder pipes however. Since the Snorkel accident in Los Angeles I understand that outriggers have been made more reliable.
The point is that unfortunate accidents sometimes happen yet is that a reason to ban the use of large Aerial Platforms or Ladder Pipes for that matter?
There is another irony to this story. On July 7th 1970 two days after the Snorkel Accident in Los Angeles , the weakened walls of a burned out building fell on Chicago Snorkel 7 which ultimately lead to the death of firefighter John Walsh on August 8th 1970. That was at the fire at 1722 N Ashland where there is now a City Park named for Firefighter Walsh.
#9 by Bill Post on June 4, 2014 - 8:34 PM
Jim sometimes that might have to do with proximity of the apparatus to the fire building and if they need to move much in way of apparatus and hose lines in order to get the Tower into position.
Another major contributing factor also can have to do with the type of Ladder pipe that the Truck companies on the scene of the fire is equipped with.
For example if the Truck company is equipped with a “Prepiped Waterway” such as some of the suburbs as well as several cities around the country such as Houston and Dallas then it is relatively simple to get the ladder pipe into operation , as opposed to the need to having to secure a portable Ladder pipe and hose line the ladder and either get lanyards into operation (such as in New York and Chicago) or have someone climb the ladder to manually operate the Ladder Pipe such as in Los Angeles.
At times it can be a matter of who arrives on the scene first and how long they need to wait for a Tower Ladder to arrive on the scene.
#10 by 0.03 on June 4, 2014 - 8:29 PM
Jim if I also remember correctly FDNY does not use ladder pipes. That’s what the towers are for.
#11 by Jim on June 4, 2014 - 6:23 PM
What I can never understand is when you have platforms at a scene that are not being used for an elevated master stream but rather ladder pipes.
#12 by Jim on June 4, 2014 - 6:17 PM
I think a lot of the preference by a department may have to do with their tactics at a fire. I have always heard that the FDNY doesn’t use there platforms for roof work rather just for an elevated stream and for the VES position.
#13 by Fartin' Fred on June 4, 2014 - 11:13 AM
Thanks Bill
#14 by Mike Mc on June 4, 2014 - 8:57 AM
You make an excellent point BIll but that is just the way they operate. It is a west coast thing. In addition to LA City, San Francisco and Seattle also do not have tower ladders. AI believe all three had at least one snorkel in the 1970’s but replaced them with regular trucks and not tower ladders when they got old. The smaller LA City snorkels that lasted into the 1990’s were just a second piece to an engine and, although used on occassion, were operated more like a squrt with a bucket than say, the CFD squad snorkels.
Seattle has brought in tower ladder(s) from the suburbs on extra alarm fires but for the most part all three cities rely on aerial pipes. For many years I have seen video and photos of LA CIty FFs on the main aerial directing the pipe in conditions that appear, from the viewers perspective anyway, to be less than ideal. You do make the point that they could be operating from the relative safety of a bucket.
LA City gave up using large snorkels after a one tipped over in 1970(?) killing one FF and seriously injuring another. The LA City FD blamed the manufacturer. The conventional wisdom in Chicago at the time, where they obviously were very interested in anything involving snorkels, was that it was operator error, that they did not lower the outriggers. LA City insisted they did but one of the outriggers collapsed due to mechanical defect(s).
#15 by Bill Post on June 4, 2014 - 4:51 AM
Fred that is a very good question that I have asked a few times myself and I have even gotten in trouble a few times for asking a similar question.
This how I got in trouble or so the speak.
Believe it or not the Los Angeles City Fire Department which protects the second most populous city in the United States has never owned or used a Tower Ladder and the last time that had used a Snorkel was in the early 1980’s when their last 50 foot Snorkel/Pumper was retired.
So I dared to question the wisdom of having such a large city not owning, or using any (that’s right, any) elevating platforms. That on line critique had really stirred quite a reaction from a number of Los Angeles natives and fans , for daring to ask such a question.
Los Angeles City’s fleet of Truck’s are 100 percent Tillered Aerials ( they don’t own any rear mounts either) and apparently they are happy with them. Now it’s true that there are some areas of Los Angeles (such as in the Santa Monica mountains) that do have winding and narrow streets and roads where a Tillered Aerial Ladder is absolutely necessary for maneuverability purposes,however there are also many wide streets and boulevards in Los Angeles where a Tower Ladder would be able to get through without any problems. If you have ever looked at photos or videos of ” major emergencies” (they really don’t call them extra alarm fires there), you will see the fire building surrounded by extended Aerial Ladders with firemen who are standing perched near the top of the Aerial trying to control the ladder pipes. And so having a fleet of Tillered Aerials is fine, but why not just have a few well located Tower Ladders that can also be put to good use when needed? That question had raised some eyebrows. While Tillered Aerials are very popular in the Los Angeles Area it isn’t a case of not totally being able to use a Tower Ladder as Long Beach CA which is the 36th most populous city in United States with over 469,000 people and the second largest city in Los Angeles County has been using a Tower Ladder for years.
In the case of San Francisco they don’t run Tower Ladders and run every Truck with a Tillered Aerial because of their narrow and hilly streets so in some cases Tower Ladders do present a maneuverability problem in some tight spaces.
On the other side of the coin the city of Phoenix Arizona runs all fourteen of it’s Truck companies as elevating Platforms. Thirteen of their Trucks are Tower Ladders (11 mid/mounts and 2 rear/mounts) and one of their Trucks is a 114 foot Bronto Sky Lift which is similar to a large Snorkel as it is articulated.
While in the Los Angeles Area not many of the Truck companies are Tower Ladders or elevating “Platforms”, conversely in the Phoenix area many of the Truck companies run with Tower Ladders and there are also several Bronto Sky Lifts in the Phoenix area.
In most cities the straight Aerial Ladder is in the majority yet most fire deparment’s also run with at least a few Aerial Platforms in their fleet.
New York City runs with 143 “Ladder” Truck companies and while 82 of them are straight Aerial Ladders 61 of them are elevating Platforms which in New York City’s case are Aerialscopes which are really telescoping Snorkels and not true Tower Ladders like in Chicago and most other cities,
So I agree that the Tower Ladder does offer some definite advantages over a Standard Truck company ,in some cases the conventional rear mounted Tower Ladder sometimes has space and a weight and maneuverability problem.
#16 by Michael M on June 2, 2014 - 8:33 PM
This might be off topic but does anyone know who will be building the new Deerfield Rescue-Pumper?
#17 by Fartin' Fred on May 31, 2014 - 11:49 AM
It makes sense from a safety standpoint for firefighters to have a sturdy platform to stand on (tower ladder), vs just a ladder, as Josh pointed out. So WHY do regular ladders of the such even exist?? Why not JUST tower (platform) ladders??
#18 by RPF on May 30, 2014 - 10:59 PM
I wonder why a tower ladder? Because of the major commercial and industrial parts?
#19 by Brian on May 30, 2014 - 1:05 PM
Thanks Karl
#20 by Karl on May 30, 2014 - 6:33 AM
Brain,
Niles runs with the following:
A2-w/2
E2-w/3
T2-w/3
A3-w/2
E3-w/3
There is a Battalion Chief @ station 2 also. When he is off, that position is covered by either North Maine or Morton Grove’s BC.
#21 by Josh Boyajian on May 29, 2014 - 10:06 PM
It is nice to have a platform to stand on…. rather than a straight stick
#22 by Bill Post on May 29, 2014 - 7:27 PM
It will be good to see Niles running with a Tower Ladder. It will be their first one. They did run with one of the first suburban “Snorkels”, in the early 1960’s. It was Red with White Trim and it was put in service when Station 2 first opened. Just about the only fire department (of the Fire Departments surrounding Niles) that doesn’t run with a Tower Ladder is Glenview. All other surrounding fire departments Truck companies are mostly Tower Ladders. Skokie runs with one Tower and one Straight Aerial , while Des Plaines runs with two Towers and Park Ridge also runs with one. The straight Aerial Ladders in that part of Division 3 are now a minority.
#23 by Rob on May 29, 2014 - 7:24 PM
Skokie will order a Pierce Tower in July replacing the reserve truck which is 1988 Pierce Arrow. Tower 16 will then go into reserve which is 1995 Pierce Lance refurbed by Pierce in 2011
#24 by Brian on May 29, 2014 - 5:56 PM
What is niles staffing per station? Do they run eng/truck/ambo from 2 and engine/ambo from 3?
#25 by FFPM571 on May 29, 2014 - 5:26 PM
About time they replaced the Used Lemon and the totaled/repaired/blown motor quint
#26 by Fartin' Fred on May 29, 2014 - 4:24 PM
Good points Karl, thanks..
#27 by Karl on May 29, 2014 - 1:36 PM
Fartin’ Fred, Niles did just get a new Ambo about a year or so ago. Keep in mind, Niles Amb 2 ranks either 1st or 2nd in runs throughout all of Division 3. That rig never stops running, and the miles go up rather fast. When you account for preventative maintenance and such, its good to have a reasonably newer reserve rig to fill in when the frontline goes down. If the site is correct for Niles, one of their reserve ambulances is over 10 years old already, and well used.
#28 by hmark on May 29, 2014 - 1:12 PM
Didn’t niles order a new engine as well
#29 by John H on May 29, 2014 - 12:43 PM
More generally, what are the consequences of not following NFPA standards? Do you risk losing some sort of accreditation? Place your department at greater liability risk if someone is killed/injured in a manner possibly involving an NFPA standard? Just curious.
#30 by Brian on May 29, 2014 - 10:32 AM
Lincolnshire was delivered prior to what I thought was an end to the black ladders per NFPA
#31 by Fartin' Fred on May 29, 2014 - 9:53 AM
New ambulance to station 2 or 3? Seems like they just got two new ambulances recently…?!
#32 by Shane on May 29, 2014 - 9:35 AM
Licolnshire Truck 53 has a black ladder…
#33 by Kevin Griffin on May 29, 2014 - 9:29 AM
I though black ladders were against nfpa standard.