Rosenbauer posted the following on their Facebook page today:
Rosenbauer Receives Order for Two-Piece Squad Company Apparatus for Chicago Fire Department
WYOMING, MN (January 28, 2013) Rosenbauer has received a five year contract from the Chicago Fire Department for the replacement of the department’s two-piece Squad Companies. The initial order consists of two Rosenbauer 55′ Articulating Cobra Platforms (ACP-55) and two Rosenbauer Walk-In Rescues. Both apparatus will be built on the revolutionary Rosenbauer Commander chassis which was introduced in 2012.
“Rosenbauer is honored to serve the Chicago Fire Department. We are pleased that the CFD has chosen the Commander chassis for the squad companies and feel it will be a great fit for them,” said Harold Boer, President of Rosenbauer America. “We value the trust placed in Rosenbauer by the second largest fire department in the United States, and we are looking forward to growing our relationship with the CFD.”
The ACP-55’s will be built on the Rosenbauer Commander chassis featuring a long two door cab with flat roof. The chassis will include seating for two and a large transverse compartment in the rear of the cab. Rosenbauer’s heavy-duty 3/16″ EXT extruded aluminum body carrying a lifetime transferable warranty will provide the framework for more than 400 cubic feet of compartment space. The ACP-55 includes a 750 pound tip load and has rated flows up to 1250 GPM. Features of the ACP-55 include Rosenbauer’s unmatched Smart Aerial technology that enhance the safety and performance of the aerial, Soft-Touch controls which ensure smooth aerial operations, and a hot dipped galvanized torque box and outriggers which carry a 25 year corrosion warranty.
The walk-in rescues which make up the second piece of the squad companies will be built on the Rosenbauer Commander chassis with a 60″ cab and a 24″ raised roof and include seating for six. The 18′ rescue body will also be constructed utilizing the heavy-duty EXT body and will include in excess of 600 cubic feet of compartment space.
The Chicago Fire Department is the second largest fire department in the United States and the oldest major organized fire department in the nation. The department has nearly 5,000 firefighters and paramedics and operates out of 98 fire stations.
Rosenbauer dealer, Trans-Chicago Truck Group located in Elmhurst, Illinois provides service and support to the Chicago Fire Department.
Rosenbauer is the world’s leading manufacturer of firefighting vehicles and equipment. In North America, Rosenbauer incorporates the international strength and innovation of a global company with top American manufacturing firms. For more information, please visit the company’s website –www.rosenbaueramerica.com.
thanks Dennis & Dan
#1 by Sebastian on March 5, 2016 - 10:29 PM
Schaumburg was the first in the area
To purchase rosenbaur equipment for their squads back in 2008
#2 by Ffpm621 on January 28, 2016 - 9:30 PM
CJ who is the local dealer here in Chicago Metro? Has anybody bought any Rosenbauers in the Chicago area?
#3 by Admin on January 28, 2016 - 10:04 PM
South Elgin, Wheeling, and Countryside have purchased from Rosenbauer
#4 by MABAS 21 on January 28, 2016 - 10:12 PM
Ffpm621:
It says above “Rosenbauer dealer, Trans-Chicago Truck Group located in Elmhurst, Illinois provides service and support to the Chicago Fire Department.”
I believe Rockford has a custom chassis aerial assigned to Ladder 2 and a few Freightliner commercial chassis engine companies. Also Champaign has a few Rosenbauer custom chassis engine companies.
#5 by Ffpm621 on January 28, 2016 - 8:28 PM
CJ what dealer do you work for? Is there a difference between the Rosenbauer Factories? Which one is Chicago’s trucks being built at?
#6 by Cj on January 28, 2016 - 9:25 PM
There are 3 US factories.
One in South Dakota outside Sioux Falls. It makes the formed body product. It’s a similar process to what Pierce, Smeal and most others build.
The other is our ladder factory, they build the actual ladders from raw metal up.
The other factory is the Minnesota factory right outside St.Paul. It builds the extruded body trucks, similar to e-one, and ferrara. In fact if you look closely you will a find common designer of all the generations of all those companies. (He works for us now). The extruded body is certainly the heavy duty option, it also adds cost, buts it’s seriously strong. Massive extrusions. The Rosenbauer chassis plant where we make the commander chassis is there as well.
The Chicago units are all at the chassis plant. I have not seen the bodies yet, just cab and chassis, but according to the pics above, those are extruded trucks. Being the rescue squad I could see them spending the additional money.
I will add one thing about trucks. Everybody builds good trucks. It’s all about balancing the specs. If the sales folks, engineers, purchasers and end users can all get on the same page and under real end use needs, capabilites and limitations things go really well. Yes there are some differences, but I am not here to profess one brand over another. I have bought many trucks in my day from many manufacturers.
#7 by Brian on January 28, 2016 - 1:25 PM
Doesn’t Rosenbauer build the T-Rex boom thing. That would have some similar mechanics I would imagine. Has to be helping them in this build I would think.
#8 by Cj on January 28, 2016 - 1:30 PM
Yes, they do build the Trex, they also own Metz are the most advanced ladders out there from a technology standpoint (bring your checkbook). When you see them operate beside our American ladder towers it’s sad, they made our stuff look old and slow. We build American style here and sell a lot of ladders (2nd in the US only to Pierce, largest globally).
The design of what’s coming out will be pretty cool. I can only say the drawings are pretty close. Not much complexity for us to build compared to what we put out normally. I think we may have some added features, but in don’t know that for sure…
When I say “we” I also work as rep for one of the Rosenbauer dealers.
#9 by Bill Post on January 28, 2016 - 11:48 AM
It’s interesting to hear about how Rosenbauer is being cautious about not allowing any early stage construction shots of the new squad/Snorkel apparatus to appear on the internet. I wonder if that is being done for legal reasons or perhaps because of the litigation with the city over the manufacturing of the apparatus they are trying to stay out of trouble. Perhaps they are waiting for representatives of fleet management or the fire department to first see the rigs before they release any photos?
The real question on my mind doesn’t have that much to do with the chassis and body but the new articulating platforms that they are developing for Chicago as they will be prototype rigs; their attempt to reinvent the Snorkel. It is ironic that since the original Snorkel platforms are now being built, you can’t help but wonder how good their version will be compared to the Snorkel built by Smeal. As Rosenbauer’s version of the Snorkel will be prototypes, they will have to do lots of testing just to prove their reliability, and the Chicago Fire Department and fleet management will also have to put the new platforms through plenty of testing just to work out the bugs.
#10 by Marty Coyne on January 28, 2016 - 10:49 AM
Thanks CJ. If you can answer were these the box squads or did you see any of the “snorkel” units?
#11 by Marty Coyne on January 28, 2016 - 8:47 AM
Thanks Danny. I’m not sure Rosenbauer would say anything even if they were in production. They seem to be playing this as top secret.
#12 by Cj on January 28, 2016 - 9:50 AM
Hey guys, unfortunately I have been asked not to post the photos yet. Apparently these are to be under wraps until they are revealed. I posted some pics on Facebook and got a phone call pretty quick asking to take them down. The last time we where not suppose to to take pictures was the 911 tribute truck for Miami Dade and the ARFF truck for the transformer movie. Usually it’s all open book at the factory.
I can tell you the order is for a bunch or trucks, more than XX in this order and they are getting close. What I saw was Complete cab and chassis done. Next step is body. I would guess about 4 months from here knowing how these things move through the factory.
They will be some pretty awesome looking units. Who ever did the specs built a serviceable hard use truck. Not a ton of frills, but very solid work trucks designed to be easily serviced. There ways to spec a truck for real work, not just comfort ride and such and the trucks are built for work.
Sorry can’t do more.
#13 by Marty Coyne on January 27, 2016 - 10:18 PM
Anything on the pics from the Rosebnbauer build in process?
#14 by Danny on January 27, 2016 - 10:44 PM
Unfortunately no…. no email to me at all from CJ and someone i know stated they called rosenbauer and was told they had nothing in production for the city of chicago… but i have not been able to confirm that.
#15 by Robert on January 28, 2016 - 4:48 PM
I asked about 5/6 months back and they also told me nothing for Chicago. I was wondering what the outcome was.
#16 by danny on January 21, 2016 - 7:58 AM
i founded these two groups on Facebook
Chicago fire dept apparatus past and present
a digital library of Chicago fire dept. apparatus photos! do not post anything else but CFD pics and videos!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/523360701116121/
and the other is
Chicago fire department history and buff group
this group covers all topics not apparatus related such as lightbars, firehouse location and history, disbanded companies, and other general CFD questions
https://www.facebook.com/groups/377254309111111/
#17 by spoung45 on January 20, 2016 - 10:20 AM
there is a Facebook group too? i got some oldish photos (from the last 15 years I took. would love to show them off to you guys.
#18 by Cj on January 19, 2016 - 3:37 PM
There were several units ordered. I am standing typing this in front of several of them in production at this time.
#19 by Admin on January 19, 2016 - 3:49 PM
how about a photo??
#20 by Cj on January 19, 2016 - 3:52 PM
Working on posting it now. Give me a few.
#21 by Danny on January 19, 2016 - 11:37 PM
Email me CJ ill get you into our CFD group on FB
Takeitliketexas@gmail.com
#22 by Marty Coyne on November 27, 2015 - 11:45 AM
Dennis, do you know if they got the second set of doors/extra seating added to the “snorkel”?
#23 by Dennis on November 27, 2015 - 10:03 AM
Things have changed a little from the drawings, 4 squad sets total. assigned to Squads 1,2,5, & 7. Rosenbauer required a minimum of 4 to be ordered until they would commit to building them. After shopping around to a few suburbs to order the 4th set the city ordered the 4th. At FDIC a 55′ snorkel squad will possibly be on display and rumored to be going to a northern suburb. Could see CFD squads by next year.
#24 by spoung45 on February 4, 2015 - 9:30 AM
I think this will be settled by the next CFD entrance exam.
#25 by Marty Coyne on February 4, 2015 - 8:24 AM
Dennis do you know if they’re trying to rebid with anyone else our of they can’t do anything until this is resolved? With the demise of Squad 7’s Pierce this has become even more critical.
#26 by MM on February 4, 2015 - 1:31 AM
The entire debate could be resolved if someone would take the time and effort to FOIA all documents regarding this sale/pending litigation.
#27 by Dennis on February 3, 2015 - 7:40 PM
Rosenbauer is NOT building squads for the CFD. The contract is in the courts over details that include what chassis they will be built on. Nobody has pictures because there’s nothing to take pictures of. Until you seem them n the street I would suggest everyone stop listening to the rumor mill.
#28 by T on February 3, 2015 - 1:41 PM
And there aren’t even spyshots out there. To me that says they aren’t even in production yet. Which isn’t good news this far out.
#29 by Sam Ervin on November 20, 2014 - 7:43 AM
Any news on this thing yet? Almost two years have passed and no news is out there.
#30 by Chuck on January 26, 2014 - 8:28 PM
And if “Chief Level Buff Only” Regan wrote it, it must be true.
#31 by danny on January 26, 2014 - 3:21 PM
“discussions continue with Rosenbauer regarding the snorkel squads. One set (snorkel and van) is on order for ohare and three sets of snorkels and vans are slated for the city proper. These rigs will replace the existing city squads (1,2, and 5) which are running with 2000 HME/Central states rigs and the o’hare squad 7 which is running with a 2000 pierce lance heavy rescue.”
jim regan fire apparatus journal jan-feb 2014 issue
#32 by Bill Post on January 15, 2014 - 3:12 AM
Needing Co’s thanks for your compliment on my history “posts”.
As for theories regarding “jump” companies and reducing companies and manpower “City and Suburbs” , I have not advocated anything of the sort , In fact the opposite is true and if you read my post’s carefully you will find that I have been advocating for a new 5th Squad company on the southside of Chicago. In fact I have been trying to present ways of doing it without taking any companies out of service and if you scroll down a bit you will discover my defense of keeping Engine 59 in service.
What I have been doing on this particular blog titled “Chicago Orders New Squads” is to look at the Pro’s and Con’s of putting a New Snorkel Squad in service on the far south side (where there are more working fires) then putting it in service at O”Hare Field.
I have never claimed to be a member of the Chicago Fire Department and I think that way too much is being read into the use of the word “We”. You need to examine the context in which the term we is being used.
If you will take notice I have been avoiding using the term we (within reason) and I have been trying to use the term “Chicago Fire Department” where I might have used the term “we” so that no one will mistakenly confuse me with the CFD.
The one post that I did deliberately use the term “we” in I was specifically addressing another individual who I was agreeing with and having an exchange of ideas with. So lets not take this a “we bit overboard”.
One of the great things about this site and blog is that it allows any one with an interest in Chicago Area Fire Departments to take part in it and to exchange information and examine various aspects of their operations and history as long as it is done within the limits of common decency.
That’s one of the advantages of this being an open site and lets keep it that way.
#33 by Mike Mc on January 14, 2014 - 9:50 PM
I was the first one to use the phrase jump company with regards to a possible mini-pumper in the loop. “Jump company” is a volatile phrase because it can have a completely different meaning from department to department. The meaning I intended was the same as an engine bringing a light wagon, Engine 35 bringing the reserve snorkel, or Engine 5 and Truck 2 bringing the collapse rescue rig. There was no intent to rub any one the wrong way. Bill just picked up my phrase and repeated it.
We fire fans never forget that you men and women actually do the job and we only talk – or blog – about it.
#34 by Josh on January 14, 2014 - 7:10 PM
Adding onto that note.. with them closing E19… I have a feeling that the 4th squad set will go in service in the 6th district as “Squad 6” with that manapower. And with E12 going in service at O’Hare.
#35 by Dennis on January 14, 2014 - 7:06 PM
Let me first state that Bill Post was not ever a CFD member nor does he speak for most of the fireman like myself who are CFD members. The thoughts and opinions on this blog are just like the many other blogs, just opinions and thoughts. The whole thing about moving the squads, putting a mini-pumper downtown, and putting 5-1-2 out of service are just ridiculous. The one thing that everyone is forgetting is the Union contract which states who mans what and how many of what needs to be in service. If it has a pump an Engr must be assigned … period, so none of this cross manning stuff is going to happen in Chicago anytime soon. I for one hate the way he says ” WE” when he states something. If you’re not on the dept, when you speak of them you cannot say “WE”. It gives a miss representation of yourself that you didn’t earn. It is good though that Bill Post does give out a great history lesson on the companies because sometimes I learn things I didn’t even know. So let’s try not to critique what a department is doing unless you have talked to the chief and have some value in the project. Alot of times we do not know the reason behind it, the projected outcome that they’re trying to accomplish, or what they are forced to do. If you ever noticed that when there is something I don’t understand I always ask why do they do that. I want to know the reason a department does something since “they’ve been doing it this way forever” is not an answer.
#36 by Jim on January 14, 2014 - 6:57 PM
Needing companies,
I don’t think I have ever read Bill advocating for reducing companies. What he has talked about is studies that were done that have suggested reassigning units and his insight into why those suggestions may be valid. He also gives the history on many of the companies.
#37 by CFD 1979 on January 14, 2014 - 5:33 PM
It has been said that they will place Engine 4 out of service and move Tower 10 into Engine 22’s quarters (lots of space since there is no Haz-Mat anymore). The crew of Engine 4 will most likely be transferred to O’Hare and form a new engine company there since they are building a new rescue station at the airport. As for changes in the 2nd battalion….it is said that Engine 19 will go out of service and Truck 11 will move into Engine 16’s quarters. After Engine 16’s move from 40th and Dearborn, the two fire houses (16 and 19) are now very close together and neither company gets a high volume of runs like they used to.
Personally, these rumors have circulated for a long time and everyone knows how rumors go in the CFD. If you look closely at these proposed changes, you can see a pattern. Each of these companies used to be categorized as “project companies,” meaning that they would respond to the nearby housing projects (Cabrini Green for E4 and TL10/Robert Taylor Homes for E16, E19, and T11) repeatedly and consistently. They were incredibly busy and almost all of their runs came from the projects.
#38 by NEEDING CO's on January 14, 2014 - 4:53 PM
Bill your post and history are nice but your constant theory’s of reducing companies, manpower and “jump” companys is “killing” me!!!! (CITY AND SUBURBS!!!) If you where a CFD guy why keep advocating reducing manning or jump co’s???? If indeed retired CFD you of all people should not be advocating to cut companys or jobs!
For O’Hare, the FAA pays, the CFD specs-FINAL!
#39 by Josh on January 14, 2014 - 4:50 PM
I have a feeling that those company shifts in the 3rd battalion will consist of Engine 4 moving to air mask services and Tower 10 moving somewhere else… idk just a thought but well see…..
#40 by fmddc1 on January 14, 2014 - 3:58 PM
Did they tear up the torque box on 34 when they had the accident? I’m pretty sure the did and that’s why it was never fixed. Anyone know for sure?
#41 by CFD 1979 on January 14, 2014 - 3:00 PM
There’s a rumor currently floating around about a big company shift within the 2nd and 3rd battalions…..
#42 by Bill Post on January 14, 2014 - 4:46 AM
Jacob I personally think that Engine 13’s house would probably be a better location for a mini pumper. As to Engine 42’s house ,even though I haven’t been there for quite a while I would have thought that they might have had some room in the bay in the west end of the station behind Ambulance 42 as that is an long bay that goes to the back of the house. Reserve Snorkel 1 had been located there quite a while ago and that is the bay where the Reserve Snorkel used to be parked.
As to Engine 59 being located with Engine 70 when they relocated Engine 59 from the south side to Truck 47 house in June of 1979 Engine 83 (the next Engine south of there) was getting more fires and from at least the mid 1960’s though the early to mid 1980’s Engine 83 was one of the busiest Engines in the city and was one of the 2 or 3 busiest Engines on the northside. There used to be alot more Engine companies in the city and there had been 2 additional Engine companies that had been located in that general area until 1969 and 1970. One was Engine 79 at Ashland and Balmoral and the other was Engine 128 at Eastwood and Seeley. Engine 79 was moved into Engine 83 new station when it opened in January of 1969 and they had moved out on March 19 1970 when they opened it’s new station at 6420 N Lehigh on the far northwest side. Engine 128 which was only about a mile west of Engine 83;s current quarters went out of service on September 16th 1969.
There is catch to this. The Chicago fire department had hired a consultant who did a study of the Fire Department in 1963 and in 1968. A follow up report was also done in 1970/71. In the reports known as the Maatman report the consultant had recommended some major fire station and fire company relocation’s in order to better serve different areas of the city ,some of which were poorly covered and others that had an excess of old outdated fire stations some of which were built in 1800’s when the fire department was still using horses to pull the fire wagons.
Several of the fire stations he had recommended to have 2 Engine companies assigned to because of the high volume of fire in their areas. In the 1968 study the consultant had recommended that Engine 83’s new station have 2 Engines assigned to and the second Engine was to be Engine 128 however the fire department didn’t follow some of the recommendations and after Engine 79 had moved out of Engine 83’s house no other Engine had moved in with them. In 1979 Engine 83 was still a relatively busy company and it’s still (first due) district went from 4200 North (Buena avenue) on the south end to 5600 North (Bryn Mawr avenue) on the north end. In those days only one Truck company was dispatched on still alarms (outside of downtown Chicago). North of Foster avenue (5200 north) was Truck 47’s still district however Truck 47 was in a single bay station and had been using a Tillered Aerial Ladder Truck when Engine 83’s new house had opened in 1969. When the Chicago fire department had decided to move Engine 59 to help cover Engine 83’s district in June of 1979 Truck 47 was no longer using a Tillered Aerial Ladder but was using a rear mounted Aerial Ladder Truck which wasn’t as long as the Tillered Aerial Ladder Trucks were so the Chicago Fire Department management did some measurements in Truck 47′ old house and found that they could fit Engine 59 in behind the Truck in the long single bay station. They decided to move Engine 59 in with Truck 47 instead of with Engine 83 as had been recommended 11 years earlier as now they could fit in an Engine with Truck 47 and the area the was north of Foster avenue east of Broadway (in Truck 47’s and Engine 83’s district) was getting it’s share of fires. So Engine 83’s still district that went north of Foster was given to Engine 59.
The Chicago Fire Department has had quite a few double Engine company stations over the years however they usually haven’t lasted more then a few years. In most of the cases the Engine companies had been doubled up because one of the older stations had been closed down and they would end up moving that stations Engine company to another (usually nearby station). In other instances several stations were closed and were replaced by a larger new fire station in the area so all of the fire companies from the closed stations would move into the new and larger station. In at least one instance an Engine company had been doubled up with another Engine company for over a year because their station had a fire in it and it took over a year to repair the damaged fire station.
In at least two instances two separate Engine companies were moved from their double Engine stations where they had been located to two different Engine company stations where they were doubled up again because of a wave of arson related fires on the Northwest side.
I”ll give you the specifics on that one.
From July 22nd 1976 to June 14th 1980 Engine company 24 shared quarters with Engine 57 and Engine company 51 had shared quarters with Engine 43 in their current stations due to a prolonged arson epidemic. After that date both Engines 24 and 51 were taken out of service. Before July 22nd 1976 Engine 51 had shared quarters with Engine 47 in their current station and Engine 24 had shared quarters with Engine 26 in their current station.
Before Engine 70’s new house was opened in 2008 there had been a rumour that Engine 59 would go out of service and be replaced by a new Truck company most likely at Engine 88 or at Engine 116’s quarters. That didn’t happen. Even though Engine 59 shares quarters with Engine 70 ,both Engine companies have separate still districts with Engine 59 being first due south of Peterson and Elmdale (6000 North) and Engine 70 being first due north of those streets on still alarms.The Edgewater and Rogers Park neighborhoods where Engine 59 and 70 are located are considered to be amongst the most densely populated neighborhoods in the city and both Engines are always going out (especially on EMS runs). Engine 59 is also used as a change of quarters company often. Because of the amount of runs that that station goes out on as well as both their neighbors to the north (Engine 102) and south (Engine 83 and 110) as well as Engine 71 to the west it would get pretty dicey if Engine 59 would be taken out of service especially if for example both Engine 102 and Engine 70 were out on EMS runs and then a still alarm would come in for Engine 102 then the still Engine would have to be either Engine 71 , 83 or 110. At least with Engine 59 in service even if both Engine 102 and Engine 59 were out on ALS runs Engine 70 would probably be nearby to take the still.
#43 by Jim on January 14, 2014 - 12:14 AM
How many runs does 511 and 512 get? Why not take 512 out of service and replace it with a squad? In the past, I believe hazmat techs were scarce. Now I believe a majority of the firefighters are techs due to the stipend.
#44 by Bill Post on January 13, 2014 - 10:55 PM
NJ yes I agree that taking Engine 59 out of service is not a good idea and that’s one reason why I think that it would make much more sense to have Squad 7’s crew become a new Squad company on the far south side and let the Squad itself run as a second piece to Tower Ladder 63.
#45 by Jacob on January 13, 2014 - 10:34 PM
I have always wonder why Engine 59 and 70 were housed together. If they were to put a mini-pumper downtown I don’t think there room at engine 42’s house.
#46 by NJ on January 13, 2014 - 10:04 PM
Bill,
Pulling Engine 59 would be a bad idea. At the minimum they would need to make Engine 70 ALS. However, as we all know, Battalion 9 is a little sparse for apparatus. Ambo’s are few are far between, so pulling the Engine is meh at best.
#47 by Bill Post on January 13, 2014 - 8:57 PM
Very good point Mike. As far as the CFD running a mini pumper in the Loop goes it reminds me of when SS 1 ran as a 3 piece company for a short period of time. It’s third piece was a small mini Dry Chemical Unit. It had become obvious that given all the runs that SS 1 would go out on that having the small Dty Chemical always Tag Along would quickly put unnecessary wear and tear on it so it became a separate company (Dry Chemical 5) and I believe that at least for a while they were located at Engine 80 on the far south side.
Getting back to the mini pumper in the Loop idea it makes all the sense in the world and one can be located with Engine 13 ,42 or Engine 1. It reminds me of the days of the Fog Pressure companies (early through late 1960’s). In those days there were no Fog Pressures actually located in the loop however Fog Pressure 3 was located at Engine 14 while Fog Pressure 7 was at Truck 14 for while and Fog 12 was at Engine 9 for a very short time. That’s beside the point however. There is no reason why there shouldn’t be a mini pumper in the Loop that is crossmanned. Quite a few fire departments (especially out west have them except they usually just call them brush units). They have a small chemical unit in Downtown San Diego at Station 1 which they sometimes use for fires in parking garages. New York city also has a few small chemical units as well as brush units. They actually were having 2 of their chemical units located near the FDR Drive (off of the east river) which normally would respond on the Drive as parts of the FDR drive couldn’t accommodate full size fire apparatus because weight and probably some size restrictions.
While I don’t know for certain if Squad 7 runs with an Engineer, I would assume that they would.
As to the FAA paying for the men and the apparatus at O”Hare , I am familiar with the FAA paying for the apparatus so I really don’t understand why Fleet Management would all of a sudden order a 4th pair of Snorkel Squads for O”Hare field along with the 3 that the city proper is supposed to be getting. As recent as 2 years ago the Snorkel Squads and the Rescue Squad at O”Hare field were listed as separate acquisitions on the proposed buying list. I am somewhat familiar with a few other major airports and their apparatus and stations and each run things a little different but they don’t all run Squads with dedicated manning. In some cases the Squads are cross manned or the equipment is carried on other apparatus.
I wonder if the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) had agreed to pay for the manpower on Haz Mat unit 512 since they are now located at O”Hare Field?
The current Squad 7 is such a large rig that I would have thought that they could have also served as a Haz Mat Squad for the airport but apparently that’s not the case.
#48 by Mike Mc on January 13, 2014 - 7:52 PM
Bill: I could be mistaken because I am going off information that is years old, but I do believe that the payroll for the Squad 7 personnel, as well as the rigs themselves, are paid for by the federal government with ARFF funds. That is the only reason that there is a Squad 7 to begin with and it has to stay at the airport. I suppose it could be transferred to Midway, but you would need a new firehouse and I doubt if the feds will allow it to go east of Pulaski or south of 79th street. I suppose they might also allow it to be used by Bedford Park and Burbank as a RIT.
Separate but related topic: Has the CFD ever thought of keeping a mini-pumper in the loop, as a jump company for an engine, to respond to car fires in the underground and high rise parking lots? It seems like it would be much easier than using the stand pipe system and I believe that auto fires in parking garages are currently treated as still alarms.
Is there an engineer currently assigned to Squad 7 to drive and operate the mini-pumper, Squad 7A?
#49 by Bill Post on January 13, 2014 - 7:27 PM
NJ we both agree that giving Squad 7 a 2 piece Snorkel Squad is ridiculous and not really being done for efficiency but to really make it simpler for (and to impress) the budget cutter’s at City Hall and Fleet Management.
Anyone who knows where the runs in the Chicago fire department are, know that a Snorkel Squad could be put to much better use in the city proper on the far south side then at the airport. We also know that Squads in Chicago are mainly put to use on “Special Operations runs” (rescue ,hazmat and pin-in’s) and at working fires.
We also know that Squad 7 really has very few working fires.
Being that a Squad in the city proper (on the far south side) will beyond the shadow of a doubt get more jobs than Squad 7 will so a fifth Squad should be put in service on the far south side. As to finding (or funding) the manpower for the new Squad we know that the city doesn’t want to ad to the payroll so it would most likely mean that another fire company would have to be taken out of service to put a new Squad in service. The first company that most would probably suggest would be to take Engine 59 out of service. That would be a problem however as Engine 59 is very busy and continually running as an ALS Engine despite being located with Engine 70.
Here is the solution. Take Squad 7’s crew (from the airport) and transfer their crew to a new Squad 6 (in the city proper) and let Squad 7’s box apparatus run as a second piece to Tower Ladder 63. On runs at the airport where a Squad may be needed just have one of Tower Ladder 63’s crew drive the”box” and follow the Truck to the scene Squads and Trucks basically do the same kind of work anyway except that Squads usually carry more specialized equipment and their crews might receive more specialized training but they basically do the same thing. Yes I’m saying let Tower Ladder 63 take on Squad 7’s duties. I’m not advocating that the Squad run in place of the Truck (like in Phoenix Arizona) but to run as a second piece to the Truck company.
Until recently all of San Jose California Truck companies had run with a “second piece”. Santa Monica California’s Truck runs with a “Squad” as it’s second piece.
In the Los Angeles City fire department they have 6 Large Urban Search and Rescue units (Heavy Rescue Squads) and when they are needed at an incident they respond with the Light Force (Truck company) that they are located with in order to man the Rescue Squad. The One Urban Search and Rescue company that is manned only has 2 men assigned to it so it still has a “Light Force” ride with it to man it. Let Squad 7 be Tower Ladder 63’s “tool” box. O”Hare field didn’t start running with a Squad until 1982 to begin with so it isn’t that you “need” to have a Squad company at the airport. The Mini Pumper can respond with Engine 9 when it is needed in the multilevel parking lot.
That is more efficient then having a Snorkel Squad at the airport which will be one of the slowest companies in the city to begin with.
#50 by NJ on January 3, 2014 - 8:45 AM
Bill,
As is frequently the case, the “simplification” done by the City of Chicago often leads to vast complications and greater expenses down the road. The current set up of the squad at O’Hare is working well. The snorkels are there to gain access in tight urban areas where a TL cannot easily get to. Not many of those in O’Hare, nor are there many even in the burbs around O’Hare.
Case in point, IMO is the decision to go with Wheeled Coach Type III ambos replacing the Type I Brauns. The Brauns have been beat to hell and back and are still running (well often running anyway) after 7+ years. No way in heck the WC Type III’s will be running after 7 years. I’d give them three to four for the West and South side rigs.
#51 by NJ on January 3, 2014 - 8:38 AM
Drew,
6-6-1 did break down in quarters on the 4-11. Haven’t heard anything since. Maybe they could do a remount of the snorkel boom TL 34’s old Pierce which has been sitting at fleet rusting for years. As was stated 6-6-1 is better suited to a museum than an active rig.
#52 by Bill Post on January 2, 2014 - 8:54 PM
Yes NJ I am suggesting that the department of Fleet Management wanted to simplify things. About 2 to 3 years ago in the Department of Procurement services annual plans they had initially listed Snorkel Squads for the city proper and a Rescue Squad for O’Hare Field as separate items in their annual plan.
Apparently they are looking to make things easier from a specing and a bidding point of view even though the CFD has been using a Heavy Rescue/mini pumper Squad arrangement since around 1988.
The first Squad company that was located at O”Hare Field had been put in service in February of 1982 and was technically speaking a “Snorkel Squad”. They were assigned a 1975 Oshkosh/FMC/Bean pumper that had been originally numbered as Engine company 12 however they had a 55 foot Snorkel retrofitted onto it around 1979/80 and they were put in service with a mini pumper and were called Squad 6 for about 7 months until September of 1982 when they were renumbered as Squad 7. That was done because a 6th Fire District was put in service on the south side and since Squad companies, Snorkels and some other special apparatus were numbered for the district that they were located in so they had to renumber it.
In 1988 Truck 63 had become a Tower Ladder and Squad 7 was given a New Spartan/Supervac Heavy Rescue Squad and was no longer a Snorkel Squad. I believe that since Truck 63 was given a new Tower Ladder it was felt that a 55 foot Snorkel wasn’t necessary at O”Hare Field. Keep in mind that when Squad 7 and before that Squad 6 were running with Snorkels they were really Snorkel/Pumpers with some Squad equipment on them as opposed to real Snorkel Squads like are run in the city proper.