This from John Tobin:
A big thank you to the Mundelein FD for ordering a stainless steel (cab and body) pumper. The new rig should be delivered in October or November of next year!
Specs include:
- KME Severe Service XMFD cab with 10″ raised roof
- 1,500-GPM pump
- 750-gallon poly water tank
thanks Bill
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#1 by FFEMT on December 25, 2013 - 1:30 PM
The main reason manufacturers don’t like bidding on FDNY contracts is that their bid specs require the manufacturer to provide a COMPLETE, bumper to bumper, all inclusive warranty. No matter if it’s 100% the FDNY personnel’s fault, no matter the cause, the manufacturer repairs it for free.
When Seagrave bids, they would add 20-25% to the price to cover the warranty.
#2 by DMc77 on December 24, 2013 - 4:21 PM
FDNY for years has had very stringent requirements for not only apparatus contracta but how the apparatus are actually built. I can’t imagine they would go with KME and not expect them to build a solid rig like Seagrave and Ferrara before them. But as always, time will tell…
#3 by T. B. on December 24, 2013 - 1:41 PM
Jim, I get what you are saying and 4 or 5 on a rig is very seldom seen in the suburbs. I would just rather see a town push out with two 3 person rigs versus three 2 person rigs. Some of the towns should quit buying $1,000,000.00 apparatus, and hire more people.
#4 by Bill Post on December 24, 2013 - 12:32 PM
NJ let’s see just how well the KME will hold up under New York’s conditions as I have heard (here and there) that New York still had some pretty demanding requirements to bid on their apparatus contracts. As you know until the last few years New York City had been very much a “Seagrave Town” and up until Mack stopped making their CF cabs in the late 80’s most of New York’s Engines had been Mack’s. Their Ladders had been Seagrave for much longer however due to the fact that Seagrave is the sole manufacturer of the “Aerialscope” which New York uses exclusively for it’s Tower Ladders New York still needs to buy it’s Tower Ladders from Seagrave and they recently have been getting some Tillered Aerial Ladders from Seagrave, so they haven’t completely quit buying from Seagrave.
It’s generally agreed that Pierce is the number 1 manufacturer in terms of sales or market share however I understand that Pierce won’t even bid contracts for Engines and Trucks in New York City because of certain contract demands by New York city. In New York City when Pierce does sell to them it is usually a Special Operations type of Apparatus such as a Rescue or a HazMat rig but even those type of apparatus contracts have been going to Ferrara and some other manufacturers recently.
Until the mid 2000’s Los Angeles City would buy their Engines from both Seagrave and Pierce and for several years they were buying matching orders from both manufacturers the same year. Since the recession the Los Angeles City Fire Department has taken some severe hits in terms of fire companies being taken out of service however since 2004 the Los Angeles City fire department had opened 21 new fire stations with 2 more that are in the process of being built. Most of them were replacement facilities however two of them were for new companies.
KME quality had been very inconsistent however I understand that there service might have improved somewhat (especially if you are near to one of their service centers or their factory in Pennsylvania). They do have a major service center in the Los Angeles area and having their factory in Pennsylvania in part explains why Philadelphia has been buying their pumpers from them lately aside for the lower prices that they charge compared to some other manufacturers.
#5 by NJ on December 24, 2013 - 8:59 AM
FDNY has changed their policies to purchasing lower grade rigs. Their new ambo’s are Wheeled Coach instead of Horton. Now KME for the engines. Penny wise, doallr dumb IMO.
#6 by Bill Post on December 24, 2013 - 12:48 AM
Don’t look now because unbelievable as it may seem New York City had signed a three year contract with KME for 91 new KME Engines within the last several months. Los Angeles City recently put in an order for 11 new Engines from KME with the possibility of an add on order, after their last order of Engines was for 23 KME products.
I hope that Chicago isn’t next.
#7 by 0.02 on December 23, 2013 - 10:18 PM
I just think it’s funny that these towns buy these expensive pieces and then barely staff them. There are still towns running a 1 man truck or squad just to get it to the scene. How many houses have burned to the ground because when the companies arrive with only 2 people on them things don’t get done? Look at crystal lake for example. 5,700 runs a year and they still run 2 people on everything. So for things like a cardiac arrest or a serious medical call they have to send another company to pick up the engine because the 2 on the engine have to go to the hospital. 3 people minimum is what it takes to make anything work, it’s been tested and proven.
#8 by Scott on December 23, 2013 - 10:07 PM
Nice to see 750 of H2O with the chest high hose bed. AS far as MABAS requirements, some divisions (not sure if MABAS as a whole) changed the requirements to 3 minimum for engines/trucks years ago.
And not all engines have 4 jumpseats (hence seating for 6). yes some do, but many in most SUBURBS have 2 jumpseats, some 3. Got to have the room for 3-4 on an engine for those towns that choose to run 2 for their town, for when they go out of town, or the occasional time they may have 3 or more.
#9 by Jim on December 23, 2013 - 8:07 PM
T.B. and Sam,
I don’t think anyone said it was safe to run the way they are. I think they as well as a majority of fire departments are trying to make the best of the cards that are dealt to them. In this age of budget cuts, I don’t know if you will ever see 4 or 5 man rigs in the future, if ever. If consolidations ever happen, you may see it but with a larger area covered.
#10 by T. B. on December 23, 2013 - 7:55 AM
KME is an acronym for Keeping Mechanics Employed. Ha!
#11 by Sam on December 22, 2013 - 11:34 PM
They went with KME because It cost them less. And T.B is right, very little manning on the apparatus is not safe at all.
#12 by Rob on December 22, 2013 - 11:05 PM
Anytime of reported fire for Mundelein automatically Countryside, Libertyville is dispatched at the sametime. This goes for 3 depts as they all work together.
In regards to the new engine I’m surprised they went with KME as I have heard nothing but problems with them. As Buffalo Grove and Long Grove have had issues.
#13 by T. B. on December 22, 2013 - 11:02 PM
I am pretty confident that Highland Park runs this way too. Lot’s of apparatus responding with very few people on scene. How is this safe?
#14 by Bill Post on December 22, 2013 - 9:37 PM
And what happens if while the fire is in progress an EMS run comes in for the town? Both of the towns ambulances are working at the fire. Do have the nearest station respond from the next town over? Or are there enough paid on call people or reserves(volunteers) to come in quickly and man the reserve rigs?
Are there automatic aide change of quarter companies that respond to Mundelein on a working fire? I”m not necessarily talking about an extra alarm fire but just a good working structure fire where both fire suppression rigs (and ambulances) would be working as well as at least one two automatic aide companies just to have enough men and equipment on the scene of the initial structure fire?
I would also imagine that if one of the ambulances was already on a run and the structure fire would come in then would you have to call for a mutual aide ambulance (in addition to the automatic aide suppression rig ) so that the second due company would have it’s “4 man compliment”?
#15 by Jim on December 22, 2013 - 8:47 PM
Dfdoldtimer,
What do towns do that are running three on a rig do? What will MABAS do if you send 3?
#16 by FFPM571 on December 22, 2013 - 7:55 PM
2 and 2 the Lake County Way…
#17 by Dfdoldtimer on December 22, 2013 - 7:51 PM
MABAS manning requirements on mutual aid is a reason to have more than seating for 2
#18 by Sam on December 22, 2013 - 4:32 PM
0.02 is right, Mundelein runs with only 2 on the engine, unless they are going mutual aid or going to a fire in which usually, the ambulance jumps on the engine, so they then run 4 on engine to fires usually. So lets say the fire is in station 1’s district then the ambulance jumps on engine and then station 2’s ambulance and quint come in with 2 on the quint and 2 on the ambulance then auto aid also responds. Although this doesn’t always happen.
#19 by Jim on December 22, 2013 - 2:20 PM
That’s an interesting observation 0.02. Many cabs are 6 man when truly that is not what needed. With most departments running 2-3 on a rig, it may be something to look at.
#20 by 0.02 on December 22, 2013 - 1:59 PM
They now have 3 different manufactures on line: pierce, sutphen and KME, so the mechanics should be happy. They could have also saved a bunch of money since they only run 2 people on their rigs they could have ordered a 2 door short cab.
#21 by Jim on December 21, 2013 - 9:34 AM
Nice low hose bed