As seen around … Chicago « chicagoareafire.com

As seen around … Chicago

From a reader:

Sad state of affairs down at fleet. CFD could use some new rigs.

#chicagoareafire.com; #FireTruck; #ChicagoFD;

Tags: Chicago FD Fleet Services apparatus, Chicago Fire Department, chicagoareafire.com

This entry was posted on October 9, 2023, 8:00 PM and is filed under Fire Department News. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

20 Comments

#1 by rich s. on October 14, 2023 - 10:39 PM

The photo of rigs in the shop yard is a photo of rigs that are stripped and will be going to auction. None of the rigs facing the camera are currently in service or spares anymore. Although we do have rigs from 1992/1993 still on the street as spares. By the time these rigs are done they aren’t worth refurbing they’re barely worth the scrap $$$
#2 by Rich S. on October 14, 2023 - 10:15 PM

Okay….. So the Chicago Fire Department looked into mid-mount TL’s a few years back and decided they would not be a good fit for the department.
1- many of the side streets do not allow for the rear end swing
2- many of the hoses do not have the depth for the length
3- A mid-mount rig does not allow for the number and length of ground ladders needed here in Chicago
TL 34 had their rig turned back into a truck for a few reasons,
The year they lost the TL they accounted for 1/4 of the total accident costs in the department, their last accident almost killed the officer and it totaled the rig to a tune of over 1 million $$. Engine 115’s house was rammed down the department’s throat and POLITICS forced those companies to be moved. The house is ridiculously huge and the responses of all those companies are messed up now. We have so many new hires and new drivers that accidents are going to happen at a higher rate. CFD is the lowest accidents out of all the major city departments with less than 1% .
#3 by Aidan Hughes on October 13, 2023 - 5:09 PM

As I said before is Engine 126 a total loss since the bumper was damaged or was it just the bumper and not the rest of the rig?
#4 by Chicagoland fire photos on October 13, 2023 - 8:53 AM

Aidan,
126’s rig hit a hydrant on the corner and the bumper was pretty messed up
#5 by Aidan Hughes on October 13, 2023 - 12:15 AM

I never knew about this until now but on August 31, 2023, Engine 126, a 2018 E-One pumper that carries the shop ID number D670 was damaged in an accident on 75th and Yates and the question I always ask is is the rig a write off (total loss) and which parts of the engine are damaged?
#6 by Tim on October 12, 2023 - 4:01 PM

Tower ladders hitting viaducts comes down to one thing……..TRAINING!!!!
#7 by Bill Post on October 12, 2023 - 3:53 PM

Matt McCrory, you are spot on when it comes to the CFD ordering midmounts.
I had also mentioned it about a year or two ago. It is ironic that the CFD decided to convert Tower Ladder 34 back into a Standard Truck company within the last year or two because they had few accidents under some of the railroad viaducts in their still district over the last several years. It really looks more like it was improper handling of the rigs because Truck 34 had become a Tower Ladder in 1988 and it was only over the last several years that it had these accidents occur when the Tower Basket was damaged. If having a Tower Ladder assigned to Truck 34 was a bad match then it wouldn’t have for such a long time.

Never the less the if they are finding that clearance height of a rear mounted Tower Ladder basket it too high in their district then all they need to do is order a mid mounted Tower Ladder where the overhang of the Tower Basket is not a high.
So instead the CFD takes Tower Ladder 34 out of service as a Tower Ladder.
I have no issue of them making Truck 24 into a Tower Ladder as they are in a new house and the Far South side can use a Tower Ladder however isn’t something that now the are out of service due to an accident. It shows that accident might sometimes happen but that really was no reason to make Tower Ladder 34 into a Truck company after over 30 years as a Tower Ladder.
So now they have been playing musical chairs with the Tower Ladders as they made Tower Ladder 37 back into a Truck company and Truck 16 is now a Tower Ladder. If the Truck 16 had an accident will they then convert it back into a Truck company also. They should have kept both Trucks 37 and 34 as Tower Ladders. As far as Truck 16 goes. The CFD did an in house study of the fire companies in 1986 and they had found that there were some significant gaps in fire company coverage on the far south side especially when it came to Truck companies as well as some Engines.
This inhouse study had recommended relocating Truck`16 to Engine 81s quarters and that does make more sense because Truck 16 is located less than a mile and a half east of Truck 30 and less than 2 miles from Trucks 37 and 34 while being just slightly over 2 miles from Truck 49.
Not only did the study recommend the relocation of Truck 16 but it also recommend building a new house for Engine 93 at 103rd and State Street and putting a new Truck in service with them and they also recommended relocating Engine 75 to 130th street a little east of Indiana and putting a new Truck in service with them as well. Last but not least they also had recommended building a new house for Engine 97 about 3 blocks north of their current house and putting a new Truck company in service with them.

New Trucks or not, all the Chicago Fire Department has to do is order one or two New Tower Ladders from E/One in the Mid Mounted Style as the CFD is committed to buying from E One until early 2024 and most likely they will end up with another agreement to buy from them as the CFD in no longer purchasing from Pierce or from Spartan/Crimson.
#8 by michael m on October 11, 2023 - 3:54 PM

Looks like TL 5 is parked in between two much older E-Ones
#9 by michael m on October 11, 2023 - 2:43 PM

It looks like the 2018 TL 5 is in the photo with the ladder trucks. I am guessing it is waiting to go back to Fire Service INC to get repaired?
#10 by Austin on October 10, 2023 - 10:47 PM

I get what the poster is saying, but clearly some of those rigs are going to be sold or scrapped. I live in DC now, and they park their apparatus outside on the streets by their fleet shop in Navy Yard. Some of them are beat to hell, but are clearly waiting to be towed away to the scrap yard as they are stripped of their equipment and have broken parts piled up inside of them. It is hard to gage what this row of apparatus is going to be used for, especially taken far away. Obviously some in the photo are reserves, some clearly will never be used again. All a reserve has to do is function, it doesn’t have to look pretty. A 20 year old HME can still function, so long as its some what maintained. At least Chicago has been steadily been getting new apparatus for several years now. I remember living in Chicago seeing some pretty beat up frontline apparatus. They have a long ways to go, but at least they are finally making some progress.
#11 by Harry on October 10, 2023 - 7:59 PM

Refurbs are fine I think if it’s a few vehicles but with Chicago and fdny no wayeven FDNY has several rigs on the road that are Frontline almost 14yo
#12 by Mike C on October 10, 2023 - 5:37 PM

Luke – To answer your question, nobody wants to do refurbishments right now when apparatus sales are at records highs. None of the manufacturers can sustain more work. I know Pierce is refusing to do refurbishments in Appleton because they don’t have the manpower.

Looking at the amount of apparatus Chicago has if they replaced engines and trucks on a 15 year rotation, they would be replacing about 6 engines and 4 trucks per year. 15 years would still be a stretch for some of the apparatus but they would still have some halfway decent rigs in the spare pool. For a city the size of Chicago, this is a small drop in the bucket in their annual budget!

In terms of ambulances, if they replaced them on a 6 year rotation, they would be getting about 13 per year.

Too bad the city is so mismanaged. It just seems exhausting trying to figure out how you’re going to have enough rigs to face the day! Parts are expensive and very hard to come by in some scenarios. I’m willing to bet the city puts more money into a lot of these rigs than what a new rig would actually cost. Such fools running the city.
#13 by Luke Jackson on October 10, 2023 - 3:41 PM

Dumb question, has anyone with the CFD/2FM considered sending some of the older reserves out for a full refurbishment? It would probably help to expand the lifespans of these rigs at a lower cost to do so.
#14 by Chuck on October 10, 2023 - 12:35 PM

The City has been playing games with apparatus replacement for 40 plus years. In the 1980’s they wrote some specs so narrowly that only one manufacturer (and their connected local agent,) were able to fulfill the bid. As years went by more and more manufacturers refused to do business with the City because of their chicanery. And switching from a dedicated shop facility all their own to F2M was another humongous mistake. And storing apparatus outside in the elements isn’t much help either. And the current CFD administration is too busy protecting their own backsides to be putting the needs of the people on the street doing the job first and foremost.
#15 by Chicagoland fire photos on October 10, 2023 - 10:07 AM

Aidan,
It didn’t look like TL5 had that much damage it should be back in service quicker. When I drove by it just looked like one of the doors on the bucket had fallen off.
#16 by Chicagoland fire photos on October 10, 2023 - 10:05 AM

Replying to Mike C
these are the Staffed Companies daily, not counting stuff that is cross staffed, on the pager (Chiefs not 24/7), or 6am-8pm
CFD Runs frontline (Staffed)
-Fire
5 Deputy District Chiefs
25 Battalion Chiefs (24 Fire/1 Soc)
95 Engines (92 Normal/3 Airport)
61 Trucks (50 Trucks/10 Towers/1 AT)
-Special Operations
4 Squads
5 Command Vans
2 Hazmats
4 OFI Units
3 Air Mask Units
-ASR
1 Fire Boat
2 Fastboats (Seasonal)
1 Helicopter
1 Dive Team
1 Dive Officer
-Airport
10 ARFF Crash Trucks (2 Midway/8 O’Hare)
1 Mini-Pumper
3 Stair Trucks
-EMS
2 Assistant Deputy Chief Paramedics (Field Divisions)
9 Paramedic Field Chiefs
80 Ambulances
#17 by Matt McCrory on October 10, 2023 - 8:12 AM

Hitting viaducts and buildings with tower ladder buckets and ladder overhangs seems to be a recurring problem. Has CFD considered trying mid mount towers?
#18 by Mike C on October 10, 2023 - 6:57 AM

How many engines, and ladders, and towers does Chicago run frontline?
#19 by Mike on October 10, 2023 - 5:14 AM

Aidan FDNY has a clause in their collective bargaining agreement that specifies apparatus replacement. It falls under safety. CFD has never really had an apparatus replacement program and F2M is doing anything to help keep things going. CDD administration sits silent about the age and condition of the fleet but it also doesn’t help that there is an increase in accidents and backlog on parts over the last couple of years that is causing apparatus to be out of service for over a year. The next delivery of apparatus CFD is receiving is just a drop in the bucket for what is actually needed.
#20 by Aidan Hughes on October 9, 2023 - 9:57 PM

CFD is taking delivery of five engines, five trucks and one tower ladder in the next couple of months. Two of the five new engines are going to Engines 22 and 75 and one of the trucks is already finished. I hear Tower 5’s platform was damaged after hitting a viaduct and Tower 24’s platform was also damaged after hitting a building two blocks away from their firehouse and it appears that the rest of Tower 5 is unharmed and so is Tower 24. Both rigs should be back in service within a year or two I guess. The city is way behind on replacing its aging fleet and needs to do better. If FDNY regularly replaces its fleet every 10 to 12 years, CFD should do it too by replacing its fleet every 5 to 12 years based on several factors including age, call rate, mileage, how frequently they are in the shops, etc.