From the Waukegan Fire Department Facebook page:
The Waukegan Fire Department began training on our new Tower Ladder. It’s working height is up to 95 feet.
Waukegan FD photo
Waukegan FD photo
Waukegan FD photo
Waukegan FD photo
New truck for Waukegan (more)
#1 by MABAS 21 on July 26, 2020 - 5:29 PM
RJ, give it a rest already! That’s what the committee and management wanted and purchased. They are not obligated to give you an answer on why they went with an Aerialscope. Enough is enough, it’s time to move on brother.
#2 by rj on July 26, 2020 - 12:07 PM
I only took the time to look up eone and pierce…. they both offer minimum travel heights UNDER 130″, seagraves lowest is 130″. They ALL have 1000″ tip loads, they ALL have endless compartment configurations with similar amounts of sq cu ft without a pump and tank. They all can flow up to 2000 gpm if configured that way. They ALL have similar -10 to +80 degree operation ranges. Eone and pierce offer SUBSTANTIALLY lighter vehicles with shorter wheelbases and a much smaller price tag. They also all have ladders for FF’s to traverse, I’ve never seen a ladder set up at an incident where someone didn’t climb the ladder at some point even if they rode the basket up initially. Waukegan can buy whatever they want, but there a numerous drawbacks to an aerialscope while other mid mount towers can do everything an aerialscope can. If any Waukegan FF’s are on here, why does the aerialscope main meet your needs over other midmount mains?
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#3 by Mike on July 23, 2020 - 2:01 PM
RJ to understand each statement I wrote, including the one I copied form a Waukegan firemen who was on the committee and wrote the spec. They considered a conventional tower ladder. The Mid mount and rear mount tower ladders. The mid mount couldn’t do what they wanted it to do and had height issues. The committee of firemen who put the spec together decided that the aerialscope best for their needs as a department. Tell you what. If you don’t believe me, understand any of the comments I made or just want to ask someone who works there, here is the number 847-625-6335, ask for chief bridges and he’ll assist you.
**edited by the administrator
#4 by Rj on July 22, 2020 - 3:28 PM
.. Localguy, thx for clarifying for mike, he has poor reading comprehension skills. The question is, and has always been, why an Aerialscope over a traditional tower ladder which means integral ladder to a basket. THAT DOES NOT MEAN REAR MOUNT TOWER. As local guy stated there ARE MID MOUNT TOWERS WITH INTEGRAL LADDERS I read your re-post the first time it was posted AND IT DOES NOT DISCUSS WHY AERIALSCOPE WAS CHOSEN OVER A MORE TRADITIONAL TOWER LADDER. And once more so you’ll remember TRADITIONAL OR MORE COMMON TOWER LADDER TYPE IS INTEGRAL LADDER TO BASKET. REAR.OR.MIDMOUNT.
#5 by Mike on July 21, 2020 - 9:26 PM
From a previous post and that Mike is a Waukegan fireman.
#13 by Mike on June 20, 2020 – 9:22 AM
I can fill in some of the questions regarding the scope and current truck. The Pierce is an 07 and will be likely be in reserve status upon the scope going into service. The 95 Seagrave truck may also be kept for training down the road. No talk or discussion on Pierce going back to Station 4 where it was in service for over a decade. There were several reasons to go with an aerialscope. Because of the truck being a second staffed suppression rig out of the main station, a pump and tank were ruled out in favor of additional equipment storage. Also, as stated in previous threads, FDNY have been running Aerialscopes for several decades. The cost of any trucks with platforms is starting around 1.2 million. Many departments on the East Coast have refurbished these units several times saving significant money as opposed to buying an entirely new truck. Another factor was the size of the fire station the truck will be located. Great Lakes has a rear mount pierce platform that does not fit in Waukegan station 1, which essentially rules out any rear-mount platform by any manufacturer. Pierce’s new mid-mount was looked at but lacked compartment space, and therefore was dismissed as an option. Three Seagrave engines have been purchased in the last few years and have been an outstanding addition to the fleet. In addition, the three reserve apparatus (2 engines and 1 truck) are all ‘95 Seagraves. They have served us well
#6 by Localguy on July 21, 2020 - 9:18 PM
Mike, they make ladder towers in mid mounts also. I think that’s what’s he’s asking, why a tower ladder “aerialscope” vers a mid mount ladder tower. Similar overall height similar length.
#7 by Bill Post on July 21, 2020 - 12:13 PM
Mike C those are valid points you make about the FDNY and the Aerialscope which was initially designed for New York City. They got their first one in 1964 with a Mack C-model cab chassis. The original manufacturer of the boom was the Truco Company. Within a year or so it was turned over to the Eaton Company and in later years the manufacturer was Baker. In the late 1980s when Mack got out of the custom fire apparatus business, the manufacturing rights were sold to Seagrave who has been building them ever since.
From the 1960s through the mid 1980s the only Aerialscope was a 75-foot model. During the 1980s FDNY was looking into taller tower ladders. In 1980 and 1981 they purchased two, 100-foot mid-mounted Sutphen tower ladders which had 1,200-gpm pumps to kick up the water pressure. Three years later they purchased two, 100-foot LTI rear mounted ladder towers on American LaFrance chassis with low profile cabs. They had 1,500-gpm pumps. In 1985 Baker came out with a 95-foot model and the FDNY purchased two on Mack chassis with CF cabs.
So during the 1980s the FDNY tried out three different types of elevating platforms with lengths ranging from 95 to 100 feet. After their literal “Trial by Fire” the FDNY ultimately found that the 95-foot Aerialscope was still the best platform for their needs.
Considerations in New York City are traffic and severe congestion plus narrow streets in some areas. Those are some of the reasons why they never used Snorkels because the larger ones had too much of a front overhang. Many of their old fire stations are wide, single-bay houses where the engine and ladder companies sit side by side in one bay. Due to New York City’s size and weight restrictions in many of their stations, only 15 of their 61 tower ladders are 95 footers. The remaining 46 are 75 footers. The FDNY had intentions of replacing all of the 75-foot units with the larger ones but have limited their 95-foot Aerialscopes to 15 companies scattered around the city in houses that can accommodate them.
#8 by crabbymilton on July 21, 2020 - 11:45 AM
Thank You for the refresh but yes, I knew they had each. I was talking about more recent times. Such an unit would be ideal for cramped areas.
#9 by Bill Post on July 21, 2020 - 11:00 AM
Crabby, I have a surprise for you. The Milwaukee fire department did at one time have a Mack/75-foot Aerialscope in service during the late 70s and 80s. They purchased one in 1977. At the same time they were also using a 1968 Mack/Pirsch 85-foot Pitman/Snorkel. They only owned one of each. Their Aerialscope was initially assigned to Truck 8 and the Snorkel was assigned to Truck 1.
#10 by crabbymilton on July 21, 2020 - 9:09 AM
I’m surprised CFD never got one. I’m sure there is a spaghetti plate of reasons. Milwaukee too.
#11 by Sebastian on July 21, 2020 - 7:12 AM
Where is Harry when we need him!!!!!!!!
#12 by Mike on July 20, 2020 - 10:04 PM
RJ I will spell it out for you this time.
They. Got. The. Aerialscope. Because it’s overall. Height is Lower. Than a. Traditional. Tower ladder. So. It will fit. Under. The. Viaducts. In. The. City……..Also. This Is. What. The. Firemen. On. The. Committee. Felt. Would. Serve. Their. Needs. Best……. did. I. Explain. It. Slow. Enough. For. You??????
#13 by Rj on July 20, 2020 - 7:30 PM
Mike, once again, only asking about why an aerialscope versus a traditional ladder tower. Not talking about mid mount versus rear mount, compartment space, or anything else you keep referencing. Just the type of ladder. Read it. If you’re not from Waukegan fd and can’t actually give any accurate information just stop commenting.
#14 by Mike on July 20, 2020 - 6:31 PM
RJ it was talked about in a previous post. A rear mount tower ladder had height issues and the aerialscope met the needs that the firemen were looking for regarding cabinet space, and operability. Take a look at the earlier post about this. Everything was explained.
#15 by rj on July 20, 2020 - 5:16 PM
Mike, my comments aren’t about choosing a tower ladder over a ladder. If you read it I’m asking why they went with a true “tower ladder” or aerialscope, over a conventional “ladder tower”.
#16 by Michael m on July 20, 2020 - 5:18 AM
Very sharp looking rig! I am sure it will serve them well. This is a neat truck to have in the Chicago area!
#17 by Mike C on July 19, 2020 - 10:36 PM
Waukegan should get every bit of 20 years out of this and the aerial can be refurbished and remounted on a new chassis to last at least another 20 years. This truck is built for heavy duty use! FDNY has bought Aerialscopes for decades for a reason!
#18 by Mike on July 19, 2020 - 9:39 PM
RJ this was already talked about in a previous post. They decided on the tower ladder this time because you can remount the aerial device and it would be a cost savings. When they got the piece ladder they tried to convince the city to get a tower ladder and at that time the administration wasn’t as friendly as they are now. This apparatus has been in the planning stages for a while so I think they figured this was the best for them. It’s gonna take a lot of training, especially driving because it’s totally different. I think it was also mentioned that this layout got them the most cabinet space and storage.
#19 by Rj on July 19, 2020 - 6:38 PM
This actually is a true tower ladder. John Norman from FDNY says a “ladder tower” is a truck with an integral ladder to the basket not just a boom.What we call a tower ladder around here is a ladder to a basket.This is a surprising choice, also given John Normans assertion that the ladders bolted to the boom of “tower ladders“ are not fit for anything but emergency escape by firefighters. You need to ride the basket to the objective, ladder climbing really isnt an option. Wondering why this is the best option for Waukegann? ppl talk about the lifting capacity but if you don’t have rigging gear and rigging men whats the worth? High anchor point for TRT call? One in a million run?
#20 by Bill Post on July 19, 2020 - 11:53 AM
It’s good to see Waukegan dedicating their new Aerialscope. We are finally getting a long overdue “taste of New York” in the Chicago area. Even though it is not a true tower ladder, they are known that way in New York. In reality, I feel that the Aerialscope is a telescopic Snorkel as opposed to the articulated Snorkels in Chicago. While not that many fire departments use Aerialscopes, the apparatus has more or less out lasted the Snorkel. New York City maintains a large fleet of Aerialscopes. Besides Chicago’s four squad companies and few places that use 55-foot Snorkels, you see very few 75-foot or 85-foot Snorkels in service. Even Phildelphia which still uses two large Snorkels will be replacing them with Aerialscopes within the next year.