This from Larry Shapiro:
I arrived at the 5-11 Alarm fire almost two hours into it. The warehouse buildings had already collapsed and though there was still quite a bit of smoke, the bulk of the fire had been knocked down already. Nevertheless, here is what it looked like from that point on.
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
#1 by Jim on April 6, 2019 - 8:52 AM
I’m guessing what the city lacks in pressure they make up for in size of the mains? Pressure means more flow, so if you don’t have the pressure the only way you’d have more flow is a bigger pipe. The interesting thing to look at with all this is how much flow can fit through a typical hydrant with an internal riser pipe diameter of 5-7 inches (the hydrant valve opening is even smaller). Obviously reducing the diameter restricts flow. My guess is that additional hard suction is only making a nominal increase in flow over the existing 4-5” soft intake.
#2 by Jeremy meares on April 5, 2019 - 4:13 PM
I heard a chief on Larry’s post on YouTube call for Big Moe. What is Big Moe? I thought CFD retired and auctioned off the large turret wagon. Just curious.
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#3 by MABAS 21 on April 4, 2019 - 1:57 PM
Simply stated, you’re maximizing the available GPM’s out of the main
#4 by BMurphy on April 4, 2019 - 11:58 AM
Didn’t know the SOPs called for hard suction at a 2-11 or above, but makes sense, especially given the inherent lower pressure in the mains (but nice to have a rather large reservoir close by). Out here in the burbs it’s typically good or great pressure (thank you water towers) but sometime a bit lacking on the volume. Makes the intake gauge head south (don’t go below 10!). Preaching to the choir I know. The only time we use hard suction (at least up to this point) is for rural ops/drafting. We are on a MABAS Divisional COQ task force for the City, so good to know about this practice for when the really, really REALLY big one comes along.
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#5 by Mike on April 4, 2019 - 7:35 AM
It is CFD policy that all engines on 2-11 alarms or greater connect hard suction to the hydrant. The cities water system is set up at around 40-50 psi but have big water mains, so they have GPM’s. They can connect a hard sleeve on one port and soft sleeve onto the other port and that’s called hogging the hydrant.
#6 by Rj on April 4, 2019 - 6:46 AM
If you look at pictures from most extra alarm fires over a 2-11 they use hard suction pretty frequently. I think anything over to 2-11 ? theyre required to tag hydrants with hard suction. Any cfd guys here to confirm?
#7 by CrabbyMilton on April 4, 2019 - 6:12 AM
Not being a firefighter I couldn’t answer that specifically.
However, I was always under the impression that hard suction was always used to hook up to the hydrant at least for the apparatus that arrive for extra support were quick connect isn’t as important. In other words lower constant pressure and higher volume.
Here…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_suction_hose
#8 by Jim on April 4, 2019 - 12:10 AM
Nice shots Larry.
Can anyone explain the use of the hard suction on the hydrant?
#9 by Bmurphy on April 3, 2019 - 8:11 PM
Nice pictures!
Looked like a tough go. Did it run the ceiling above the sprinkler system? Assuming it had a system due to the sprinkler piping visible in the loading dock pics. Any water supply issues? Sometimes hard suction use (E44) can indicate lower-than-usual hydrant pressures, although I know lots of GPMs were flowing in the neighborhood mains. Just wondering; maybe something educational to pass on?
#10 by Crabbymilton on April 3, 2019 - 4:47 PM
35 looks good at work.