More from Bill Post:
(In response to a comment from Martin)
I too like the idea of utilizing Pierce products and technology. Here is one of the reasons. As some of you may know, Pierce has recently acquired the marketing and servicing rights to the Bronto Skylift platforms. In other words, they are now Bronto’s North American representative. Currently Bronto/Pierce is marketing only three types or heights of platforms which are 100-foot, 114-foot and 134-foot Skylifts. However, the Bronto Corporation, which is based in Finland, actually manufactures aerial platforms that go from 55 to 367 feet. Their shorter models which go from 55 to 91 feet seem to be close to ideal. The Bronto actually is a type of Snorkel as it is an articulating boom with telescopic features (or vice versa). Their shorter model platforms, actually in practice have been mounted on squad-type trucks in the overseas fire service market. So, it can be done, and all that Pierce would need to do is have one of smaller Bronto platforms shipped to them. Then, they mount one on a Pierce chassis. Of course the platform would have to meet American standards, but in the long run, that shouldn’t be a problem.
Bronto Skylift 17M (55-foot) aerial. Bronto photo
Bronto Skylift 17M (55-foot) aerial. Bronto photo
Bronto Skylift 17M (55-foot) aerial. Bronto photo
Bronto Skylift 17M (55-foot) aerial. Bronto photo
Here is a photo of Memphis Rescue 3 that Bill Post mentioned. It is a 55' refurbished Snorkel mounted on a '07 Pierce Dash chassis/body. Larry Shapiro photo
#1 by Bill Post on December 9, 2012 - 1:10 PM
Joel I would like to thank you for posting the information on the new Snorkel/Squad contract and for the clarification as to exactly how many vehicles are being ordered.
Keeping in mind that this is purely speculative while it may be possible for them to make Squad 7 into a Snorkel/Squad and it may also be possible to used the fourth pair of vehicles as a Spare Snorkel/Squad I would say and in fact have been saying for a while now that a very good case can be made for the CFD to add a fourth Snorkel/Squad in the “City Proper”.
There is a very good argument for adding a fourth Squad on the far south side as Squad 5 has a much larger and busier district then the other two Squads that are located in the city proper.Another good rational for a fourth Squad located in the city proper is that if you notice that the CFD maintains four communication vans in the city proper (who are dispatched on confirmed working fires and since Squads are also dispatched on confirmed working fires it just makes sense to have matching Squad companies and Communication Vans. As, the south side is geographically larger compared to the other sections of the city and since there are two Communication Vans on the south side, it only makes sense to have a second Squad company on the south side as well.
#2 by David on December 9, 2012 - 10:54 AM
@Big Moe. The SP 70 looks fine but it’s a different type of rig. Thats the whole problem – the tower ladder simply doesn’t have all the advantages of the snorkel. The Squad rigs have to be extremely versatile so I think the Sutphen tower with the classic straight telescopic stick won’t be such a good solution.
#3 by Joel Hallstrom on December 9, 2012 - 12:40 AM
@Craiger – the contract is for four of each vehicle type. Four of the rigs with aerial device at $587,575.59 each, four of the rescues at $457,668.73 each. There’s some other costs built into the contract as well for radios, etc. as well.
#4 by Big Moe on December 8, 2012 - 10:55 PM
I like the Sutphen SP-70. Single rear axle, lots of compartment space, short nested boom length, and long manufacturing history. Not sure I would want 5 million dollars worth of Rosenbauers first ever 55′ snorkels.
#5 by Joel Hallstrom on December 8, 2012 - 10:26 PM
@David – its a version of the custom cab Rosenbauer makes, just without a rear passenger area. The area just behind the front doors is a storage area. If you look at the bid documents there are drawings for both types around page 168 in the PDF. Think of what the FDNY Rescue company cabs look like.
#6 by shaan smith on December 8, 2012 - 10:09 PM
when are the rescue squads coming what are they going to look like i am big fan of the chicago fire department
#7 by Craiger on December 8, 2012 - 8:41 PM
Looking at the drawings of the units, the snorkel unit is a 2 door cab and the squad unit is a 4 door 5 man crew cab with a bench for more men in the walk through body. At the bid price of over 4 mil, I would guess its for 2 snorkels and 2 squads.
#8 by David on December 8, 2012 - 5:40 PM
2-door cabs?! It’s getting more interesting than I thought. I’m wondering if it’s gonna be the COE or “nose” style?
#9 by chris on December 8, 2012 - 3:37 PM
@joel i dont think the city would order a spare for each they might make sqd 7 a two piece unit again and just remumber the mini pumper 63? or ad a whole new sqd co. in the city
#10 by Joel Hallstrom on December 8, 2012 - 3:14 PM
Try this link and put Rosenbauer in the vendor field:
http://webapps.cityofchicago.org/VCSearchWeb/org/cityofchicago/vcsearch/controller/contracts/begin.do?agencyId=city
All indications are that RK/Rosenbauer is engineering a new boom/articulating unit that will be similar to the snorkels now in use. Given the platform capacity (it states four people, which should be 1,000 pounds) I bet it’ll be designed to current NFPA standards. Anyone know the allowable load in the old Snorkel buckets?
Contracts are signed. delivery due in less than a year, and they ordered four of each type. One wonders if they’ll then have a dedicated spare unit of each type? The units with the aerial device will be custom 2-door cabs. All will use Rosenbauer’s new custom chassis.
#11 by Henry Gruba on December 8, 2012 - 2:54 PM
Found the contract. Go to http://webapps.cityofchicago.org/VCSearchWeb/org/cityofchicago/vcsearch/controller/contracts/search.do
and type 26681in the Contract (PO) Number field. It is a large PDF file.
#12 by Mez Yonk on December 8, 2012 - 2:54 PM
Go to the City Contract & Vendor page and enter the # 26681 for the bid number.
#13 by Drew G on December 8, 2012 - 11:02 AM
And I know the HRET boom isn’t a true snorkel, but I’m just curious to see if Chicago looked at that as another new option for replacement. It sounds like they made their decision though, so I can’t wait to see what they will look like.
#14 by Drew G on December 8, 2012 - 10:59 AM
Looking at this brochure for Rosenbauer, I can’t seem to find a 55′ Phoenix boom made by them. Can someone post a link for the phoenix boom? The HRET boom would work well with what the CFD is trying to accomplish. And Joel, that link doesn’t work but I’d be interested to read what the contract says. The brochure link is here: http://www.rosenbaueramerica.com/media/documents/pdf/aerials_eng.pdf
#15 by Joel Hallstrom on December 8, 2012 - 4:01 AM
I have no problem posting this…. It’s public record.
http://webapps.cityofchicago.org/VCSearchWeb/org/cityofchicago/vcsearch/controller/contracts/display.do?contractNumber=26681
Page 168 or so in the contract documents shows the line drawings for the rigs.
#16 by "J" on December 7, 2012 - 6:12 PM
55′ phoenix boom, just do the foot work you’ll find the specs…combo purchase box and snorkel
#17 by Brian on December 7, 2012 - 3:22 PM
Does Rosenbauer make the T-Rex in a 55′ model?
If not, putting a 100′ boom on the squad is pointless
#18 by "J" on December 7, 2012 - 10:54 AM
new snorkels are coming…Rosenbauer is building them
#19 by danny on June 20, 2012 - 4:15 PM
i was recently in louisville, ky and i talked to a guy who works on one of the few TDA (tillers) in the fleet and he said if the rescue companies they have are tied up the tiller and engine stationed together respond as a two-piece company… no actual snorkel type stuff here but they do have tele-squirts which seems to be the norm with all local departments in ky
#20 by Wyatt on June 19, 2012 - 12:46 PM
Definitely longer than the single axle squads they have now, but these would let them carry more ladders than the squads now do-
http://evehiclenews.com/new-spartan-erv-telstar-articulated-platform/
#21 by David on June 6, 2012 - 3:28 AM
Chris, the 367-foot Bronto is called the “F 112 HLA” – 112 for 112 meters (367 feet). As far as I know one of these monsters is in use by the Moscow fire dept. in Russia (F 101 HLA on Mercedes-Benz Actros 6258 12×4 chassis) and some were purchased also for China and Qatar. Not sure how practical this device really is but I can imagine that in the case of a major hi-rise emergency where you have to make a rescue above the 20th or even the 30th floor, it can be quite handy. Another thing is that such a situation doesn’t occur every other day, so for most of the time it may be just a really expensive “dust collector”.
http://www.bronto.fi/brochurebankview.aspx?id=59&s=1
http://www.bronto.fi/sivu.aspx?taso=1&id=125
#22 by Bill Post on June 5, 2012 - 11:29 PM
Chris the 367-foot SkyLift is on a large low-built flatbed. The main part of the body has 5 axles and the front of the rig features 2 axles. The rig itself is articulated so the front section bends when turning a corner. Considering that the rig is so large, it would only be used when there would be a need for an elevating platform.
Here is a very important point however which you might not know. In most countries overseas, both large elevating platforms and aerial ladders tend to be special units that usually have one or two men assigned to drive and set up the rig. In other words they don’t normally run as truck companies. In many countries, what we would call engines (in England and some other countries they are called pumping appliances) are the fire companies and the men on board do both engine and truck work. They do run with heavy rescues and with pumper squads however, but the aerial companies are used when they need to have an aerial ladder or platform.
Check out this a link.
#23 by Martin on June 5, 2012 - 9:42 PM
Chris, I would think something along the lines like a heavy duty truck, for example international workstation or even bigger like a semi.
#24 by chris r on June 5, 2012 - 12:43 PM
I too like the idea of BRONTO platform, i have a question. WHO or WHAT would you use a 367-foot platform and what size truck would you need. I know it would have to be a big truck .