From the March 12 board meeting – Villa Park orders new engine to replace Engine 82
16.Resolution of the Village of Villa Park, DuPage County, Illinois, authorizing the purchase of a fire engine from Global Emergency Products for a total net price in the amount of $571,661. The fire department currently has three fire engines (pumpers) in its fleet. Two are frontline engines and the third is a reserve. Reserve Engine E80 is a 24-year-old Emergency One (E-One) with 88,000 miles and over 11,000 hours of engine time. The engine has reached its in-service life with the Villa Park Fire Department. The village has been saving to fund the purchase of this engine for five years. To avoid the 2018 price increase, the engine would be ordered prior to the end of the current fiscal year; however the cost of the engine would be paid out of SY18 funds. Funds are available in the SY18 Equipment Replacement Fund account number 65.502.02.401 for this purchase. It is estimated that the shipment date will be in March of 2019.
#1 by Mitch on April 16, 2018 - 8:57 PM
Jim the pricing would be pretty comparable on demo’s. Right now E-One doesn’t have alot out there for demo’s, there are still a couple 2016’s out there that dealers have been really pushing but apples and oranges compared to what Pierce has done right now getting ready for everyone to kick the tires on after FDIC. I am not sure if the REV group deal dealt a blow to demos since they would have KME’s and Ferrara all sitting waiting for a buyer now. If you can find a HGA pricing guide it will have demo and basic unit pricing from every mfg that participates in it.
#2 by Jim on April 16, 2018 - 9:33 AM
Mitch is it the same price for an Eone stock unit?
#3 by Mitch on April 15, 2018 - 7:41 PM
I don’t have any affiliation with Villa Park FD but I do have quite a bit of experience with both Pierce and E-One both a an end user and selling equipment to both for apparatus. The $571k is not out of the ballpark by any means for a metro/suburb fire dept. Pierce right now is asking $350 for a cookie cutter no frills demo engine on a commercial chassis and $475k for a custom chassis Saber unit with the same cookie cutter no frills body. That being said, no frill means, 1 shelf in the compartment, no equipment holders/ racks, no hosebed tarp other than seat belt strap, basic NFPA lighting, basic 1 color paint and striping, that white roof is an add’l charge. Very basic pressure governor, no scene lighting, no PTO or generator, Amdor cheapest line rollup doors, lighter gauge aluminum pump panels/ diamond plate, lighter construction under compartments, basic Zico scba holders/ seats, as well as no cab compartments. Any change to this and you add very handsomely to the asking price. If a basic demo engine works then great but for most places basic demos do not leave the dealer or factory that way with tens of thousands added to the demo price. Also for that price you get a rig of YOUR specs not what Pierce or any mfg wants you to have. If you as a department cannot justify the added cost to spec then a demo can work great, we tolerate ours as it was not our decision even though we are the ones who use it. It also boils down to if Villa Park can justify the need and the cost to its taxpayers then that is all that matters on the purchase.
#4 by Bill Post on April 14, 2018 - 8:35 PM
FFPM571 you make a good point about Seagrave as even New York City which was exclusively Seagrave since the early 90’s (after Mack stopped making custom fire chassis) has stopped ordering Seagrave rear mounted aerial ladders. They also stopped purchasing their standard engines as well. To be fair, New York buys tillered aerials from Seagrave and Aerialscopes which only Seagrave builds. New York also buys Seagrave pumper/squads. Seagrave doesn’t do the kind of business with New York that they had been doing 8 to 10 years ago.
#5 by FFPM571 on April 14, 2018 - 5:37 PM
I am betting none of the crybabies about cost live in Villa Park to even have a say on how the money is spent. Even a E-One, Ferrara KME, with spec’s of similar rig would be over $500K That’s now how much they cost unless you buy a stripped down stock rig or a small unknown builder.. Try pricing out a Seagrave..They are outrageously overpriced.. Villa park sometimes runs 3 people per station… Engine and Ambulance.. They have always been short staffed and rely on neighbors . Have for years…
#6 by Wayne on April 14, 2018 - 2:14 PM
Dan it doesn’t matter how many actual fires they have, their engines probably get used for training, running calls other than fires, and whatever other various tasks they might have need to use it for. And they probably don’t buy a bare bones rig because the crews deserve to be comfortable and they probably have more equipment on it than just bare bones firefighting equipment. Why does it matter to you so much?
#7 by Dan on April 14, 2018 - 12:29 PM
The DH: I’m not advocating a 20 year engine…be serious.
But there has to be some some accountability as well.
If they are using to pump water on a fire 1 time a month in Villa Park or less, is spending well over a half million dollars worth it?
Fire departments cry poverty all the time (maybe not Villa Park) but then they make purchases like this instead of purchasing a truck or engine that do the same thing but significantly cheaper.
#8 by The DH on April 14, 2018 - 9:17 AM
Dan, wherever you live, is the cost worth it to have an insurance policy with a newer vehicle and equipment or a 20+ year old vehicle and older equipment to rely on when yours or a family members house catches fire? Or if a family member is dying? Do you want to rely on that 20+ yr old vehicle to start and get to your house? If they respond on one call then the cost is necessary. As other’s have said, it is not a debt creating purchase. Most municipalities have a fund that starts refilling after purchase for each vehicle they buy.
#9 by Rusty on April 13, 2018 - 5:44 PM
FF51 Keep drinking the Kool Aid! How are those frame rails? Or How about the ladder that failed in Boston? Hmmm. I don’t think the junk company has ever had a ladder failure.
#10 by FF51 on April 13, 2018 - 12:52 PM
Why not go with E-One? Because E-One is junk…no comparison between them and Pierce. Departments continue to buy E-One because they’re cheaper, and thus you get what you pay for. Like comparing a Kia to a Mercedes. Just my opinion of course, but I’ve operated/worked with both Pierce and E-One for over 16 years.
#11 by Dan on April 12, 2018 - 9:34 PM
With all being said, how many actual fires in Villa Park? I can’t find the info here or the city’s web site.
If they have 15 actual fires where they pull hose a year in Villa Park, is the cost worth it?
#12 by MABAS 21 on April 12, 2018 - 2:34 PM
Bill, another Pierce for fleet uniformity and standardization. Sounds like this new engine may be identical to their current Engine 81, which the troops probably like.
#13 by Bill Post on April 12, 2018 - 1:06 PM
So why not go with E/One or one of Pierce’s competitors? It seems that Villa Park had gotten alot of good use from their current E/One rig?
#14 by Rusty on April 12, 2018 - 11:40 AM
Yeah Bill you are probably right spartan meaning basic. It is a basic Pierce on either low level entry cab of Enforcer or Saber Chassis with no frills on it for 570k where their competitors are in the 500k range. Look around you there are not alot of Pierce’s high end cabs being sold in the area. They are all low level Enforcers or Sabers with High Cost.
#15 by Bill Post on April 12, 2018 - 11:30 AM
Perhaps this Engine being ordered is a high capacity pumper/squad which would have more equipment and space than a ordinary pumper. Generally speaking, Villa Park seems to have a spartan fire department. When I say spartan I don’t mean the fire engine manufacturer! I mean the fact that their stations seem to be very basic. Their apparatus inventory doesn’t include a truck so they have to rely on mutual and automatic aid for a structure fire or other serious incident. So, it makes plenty of sense to be running with an engine or two with squad equipment or at the very least some major extrication equipment like spreaders, cutters, struts, and some air bags.
#16 by harry on April 12, 2018 - 10:32 AM
I would say for a pierce that seems right I know franklin park il new engine 5 years ago was 450 000 and it was a Spartan so I would say that is reasonable
#17 by Mike on April 12, 2018 - 7:46 AM
This is high. Why? Because it’s pierce. Cookie cutters and price gouging. Yes the cost of materials and of course added safety stuff like regen, air bags, antilock brakes all drive up costs. But pierce has been pushing up costs for years. And you can’t compare buying an engine to buying an aerial two completely different things. In Illinois you have to bid out buying equipment but you do not have to take the lowest bidder. If villa park can afford this and thinks it’s best suited for them then that’s their decision.
#18 by Chuck on April 12, 2018 - 12:32 AM
$571,000 is reasonably cheap. if they were buying an aerial or even a tower ladder they’d be looking at $750,000-$1,000,000. These are one of a kind, handcrafted vehicles – they’re NOT cheap. And there are payment plans structures and as you read, they’ve been saving and planning for this purchase. It’s not like they’ll be deficit spending on behalf of the Fire department.
#19 by Dan on April 11, 2018 - 9:08 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Are they that busy to buy a Cadillac engine?
And here I thought many cities and Illinois are broke.
#20 by Jim on April 11, 2018 - 8:57 PM
thats cheap
#21 by Jim on April 11, 2018 - 8:38 PM
$571,661 ? Does anyone else find this crazy? How are municipalities continuing to purchase fire apparatus at these prices?