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New engine for the Elgin Community College Fire Science Program

This from Bill Schreiber:

Elgin Community College Fire Science Program purchased a demo Freightliner/Rosenbauer 1500-PGM pumper, with a 1000-gallon tank

click to download

Tags: drawing of Freightliner/Rosenbauer fire engine, Elgin Community College Fire Science Program, New fire engine for the Elgin Community College Fire Science Program

This entry was posted on December 18, 2020, 11:00 AM and is filed under Fire Service News, New Apparatus Order. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

11 Comments

• #1 by danny on December 22, 2020 - 12:35 PM

  

  tyler this is being bought as a demo unit from rosenbauer, so its a 2020 purchase but it was drawn up to be built in 2019 pre covid-19.

• #2 by Tyler on December 22, 2020 - 8:42 AM

  

  Looking at the date, this was ordered last year prior to COVID hitting and when their fire science classes were very full. ECC is offering more and more than ever in the past and running a great program in its previous comparison. The ECC fire academy I went to isn’t near the same as it is today, especially with their new training facility and classrooms.
  Knowing what they had for apparatus, which was great as donations when they got them, everything’s lifespan comes to an end eventually and its possible the repairs of the current hand-me-down equipment was superseding the purchase of a small, base model floorstock engine that they can project will last much longer and have a more modern feel to train on. Its also a little better to have an engine that works and is more efficient to pump on for the safety lines that are required for every burn.

  I can tell ya the program is being run well and this is what they have been budgeting for, then this is what they are getting with that approved budget- they already had all the reasons they were submitting for it and had to prove it was needed in the first place. I’m glad they are upgrading their fleet!

• #3 by John on December 20, 2020 - 11:58 AM

  

  Mike C, unfortunately I’m not the John you’re referring to. But on another note, most of my comments were not directed toward you. You are certainly correct about the maintenance and depreciation in relation student experiences. I’m by no means an expert either but there always a few with unsubstantiated claims.

  And to address the comment about tax payers, of course ECC receives tax revenue from residents of the district. However there are also students that generate revenue, where do you think all that tuition goes to? The director is fiscally responsible to multiple sources, not just tax payers, that is my point. The students, whether in or out of district, also add to the equation.

• #4 by Tim on December 20, 2020 - 10:13 AM

  

  Is any government entity fiscally responsible?

• #5 by Chuck on December 20, 2020 - 7:51 AM

  

  “Also contrary to some belief, the college is not necessarily fiscally responsible to tax payers, as a FD might be constrained to.”

  Since when? Since District 509 gets public tax dollars from taxpayers in Kane and Cook Counties. they most certainly should be. And what was the need to get this apparatus now, when class attendance is so severely restricted?

• #6 by Mike C on December 20, 2020 - 7:32 AM

  

  John F. – I’m on your side! As an EVT I know what it cost to repair apparatus. Older apparatus always requires expensive maintenance. Often times the maintenance or even a repair expense far exceeds the value of the vehicle. Keep in mind when the older apparatus goes down, it interferes with the students education program that they are paying a lot of money for. ECC already has custom cabs also known as cab overs that also allows the students to have the opportunity to learn driving operation procedures and they can even be educated on maintaining the apparatus if the college chooses to offer such a program.

  The amount of “experts” on this site is unreal. Lets criticize the ECC fire science program when most of us, including myself don’t know much about it!

• #7 by John on December 19, 2020 - 6:43 PM

  

  Some commentary here seems to be pessimistic in nature, and that’s bothersome. Nobody would bat an eye at CFD or alike purchasing a wicked tower ladder or squad, yet when a community college seeks a new engine? God forbid. Both Quinn Fire Academy and IFSI have numerous new(er) pieces of apparatus, am I right??

  ECC has four pieces of apparatus: one ladder truck, two engines, and an ambulance. All are over 20+ years old and have a varying degree of mechanical and or electrical problems. All of which were donated at or around the time the remote campus was brought to fruition. The apparatus are maintained but with the extensive issues, each bleed more revenue than save. Fire departments are also not more likely to donate apparatus versus sell as a trade in, so please stop spreading a false rumor. ECC has an obligation to provide safe and modern equipment for both students & instructors. NFPA is always a factor, let’s also consider that. Contrary to some belief that a piece of apparatus simply sits stationary, they do still get used and provide more than just being a host to equipment. It is true the mileage is greatly reduced however the equipment is still heavily used. Fire pumps and governors ARE NOT only a factor with FAE courses, given the apparatus are used significantly during live fire evolutions and alike. How one can argue against a newer fire pump or pressure governor is also slightly disturbing.

  Also contrary to some belief, the college is not necessarily fiscally responsible to tax payers, as a FD might be constrained to. Take into consideration the overall source of revenue of the college before you speak. None the less fiscal responsibility is a factor and one cannot (read should not) argue why a commercial versus custom cab was chosen.

  ECC has their own wallet as does anyone else, what they do with their revenue is of the best interest of the college, trustees, staff, and students. Why some would question a new fire engine, is beyond me. You might as well question why a multi million dollar campus exists in the first place. Should the students go back to performing evolutions in the middle of a cramped parking lot around a series of shipping containers, as occurred in the years prior to said campus?

  Let’s simply be happy for them?

• #8 by Rj on December 19, 2020 - 3:19 PM

  

  Seems like a big expense when a donated or used cab over apparatus would suffice. With a proliferation of federal grants many departments are mandated to donate the apparatus they replace with the grant. Sitting atthe college will put virtually no miles on so age isn’t that much of a factor it just needs to run and pump. On the subject of trying to provide realistic training, very few local suburban departments run commercial cabs with ladders that are accessed from the rear like this one. Academy engines just need to carry tools to the drill tower and provide a place to pull hose and ladders from, vehicle age isnt important. Pulling hose and grabbing letters can be done from any vehicle regardless of age, not much has changed over the decades in that regard. Modern Pump panels, throttles, governors etc are only a factor when they teach FAE.

• #9 by Mike C on December 18, 2020 - 1:54 PM

  

  The head of the fire science program has a history for purchasing demo vehicles. When he was the chief of Elgin he led the purchase of two demo rigs. While some may question why does a community college need a brand new rig, I can assure you the head of the fire science program works diligently to save tax payers money. Does ECC have a Rosenbauer on a custom cab too? I can’t remember what they all had these days. Seemed like the college just kept accumulating old junky apparatus from other towns.

• #10 by crabbymilton on December 18, 2020 - 11:33 AM

  

  I would imagine that they want to train people on equipment 30 years old since things have changed since the 1980’s-90’s Otherwise the department that hires them will have to waste time retraining.

• #11 by Dan on December 18, 2020 - 11:27 AM

  

  Why would a community college need a brand new fire truck?

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