Dan McInerney provided the following information about the new tower ladder that is being purchased by Oak Park.
The OPFD recently opted to purchase a new truck. The bidder that was selected was E-One. The type of truck selected was a 95′ platform on a low profile chassis. The low profile chassis is needed due to numerous viaducts with low clearance issues. Also making a return to the OPFD is a truck without a pump. The main reasons we chose no pump is to cut down on cost and complexity, be able to carry more equipment, and due to a recent ISO grading that showed us we no longer needed an aerial ladder with a pump. The compartment space that will be added due to the new configuration will more than double the amount of space we currently have.
E-One was able to meet our height restrictions by lowering the height of the ladder when bedded. If you look closely in the drawing and picture, you will see that the cab is a normal sized Cyclone, but the waterway is nestled in a cutout of the roof of the cab. There is approximately 4-5 inches of dead space in between the top of the roof and cab ceiling where insulation, wires, radio stuff, etc. would go. Another big concern was the amount of forward visibility that was lost with other low profile designs.There were three other manufacturers that bid – Rosenbauer, Ferrara, and Spartan ERV – all three of them had forward visibility issues with their low profile designs.
Another point of contention with the 95′ model is we would loose several feet of vertical reach from what we currently have. Those concerns were put aside when we compared an E-One 95′ vs. 100′. The 100′ has a larger outrigger spread compared to the 95′, and in all, we would only loose a little over 2 feet of reach if both were set up at the same spot.
The attached picture of a low profile 100′ was sent to us by E-One for a customer whose agency escapes me at the moment. Our rig will have no pump and roll-up doors throughout, except in a spot over the rear duals where a roll up door would be impractical. In this picture you can really see the bottom of the platform affects only the top portion of forward visibility.
E-ONE 95′ rear-mount tower ladder on a Cyclone chassis with a notched cab roof. E-ONE photo
#1 by jim on February 12, 2015 - 7:44 AM
the CAD is a bit blurry, what was the overall height of the truck? seems like they got way more compartment space than a midmount tower.
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#2 by Scott on December 9, 2013 - 3:23 PM
In regards to Seagrave, the Aerialscopes can NOT have a pump and tank put on them because of space & weight restrictions.
As far as OKPK as many have said, it is up to that Department to determine their needs. And prior to the current Tower ladder, they had a Seagrave straight aerial that was in-serivce frequently by itself at Sta 1. It was similar to a Detroit Truck, booster tank, small pump, booster line and at one point 100 or so feet of 1-1/2″, but it was never used first in at a house fire. Then years later, the booster line removed, and I thought even the tank removed and just the pump and some hose left; again, never used. Engine’s have always been always arrived within seconds of the truck if it actually happend to be first in. Some history going back 15 to 30yrs, at the beginning of the staff reductions and my opinion, the “dismantling” of that Department (Used to run 3 eng’s, truck, snorkel, Squad, 2 amb’s & the shift commander) down to 2 eng’s, trk, 2 amb’s & the Shift commander. I’m sure the Village Hall & Mayor are fully aware of what is going on. One thing with that town, call volume has never really gone down. Good job & “kudos” to the OKPK Department, handling it with what you have!
#3 by Mike Mc on December 9, 2013 - 2:26 PM
Cicero used to run a single truck house until about the mid to late 1990’s, so it is not without precedent. Good luck with the new rig.
Is River Forest using a spare truck?
#4 by 0.02 on December 8, 2013 - 12:49 PM
Mike Mc, not sure if you got the message but river forests truck is out of service now.
#5 by DMc77 on December 8, 2013 - 3:00 AM
Mike Mc – to echo Chief Smith’s statement, if you were to look at our division map you would see that our response area is covered sufficiently enough with engines that our truck would not be onscene very long before an engine would arrive to lead out. As mentioned in my previous post the need for our truck to arrive onscene and lead out just doesn’t occur enough to justify it having a pump/tank/hose. We were recently regraded by ISO and actually lost points due to our current apparatus being a quint versus a non quint aerial. And its not like the personnel from our main station would arrive at a fire before the engines and stand around and wait for a line to be led out before performing firefighting duties.
There were many criteria we looked at when designing the specifications for our new aerial ladder, and the pump/no pump factor was discussed in detail. Also mid mount vs. rear mount and straight ladder vs. platform were major considerations. And in the end it was decided that we would be better served with the truck that we are getting.
#6 by Drew Smith on December 8, 2013 - 1:08 AM
One more point, and this relates to the comment I made regarding Palatine’s new aerial, the north and south OP engines and the River Forest station are each located about one mile or less from the OPFD HQ station which houses their aerial. While the possibility exists, the probability of the aerial arriving first with all responding engines being minutes behind appears, at least in my opinion, to be low.
#7 by Drew Smith on December 8, 2013 - 12:38 AM
Mike Mc, how can I take your comment about having the chief drive an engine versus his usual vehicle seriously? You make some valid points but each FD must use its stats to make management decisions. Given the reduction in force that OPFD has been given over the past 20 or so years they seem to rise to doing more with less.
#8 by Mike Mc on December 7, 2013 - 11:41 PM
DMc77: For how many of the 13 years, that the that tower ladder led out only a handful of times because it was first in at a fire, was there an engine running with it out of the Euclid firehouse? 10, 11, 12, 12 and a half? See my point?
You are down to three fire companies and you run them out of three separate houses. In my humble a opinion you do not have the luxury of a straight stick or pure tower ladder, you need a quint. How much you want to bet the mayor would be shocked to find out that there is not a single apparatus running out of station 1 that can put water on a fire? Seriously, running three engines and relying on River Forest to provide your truck might be a better idea. How about taking away the chief’s buggy and have him drive an engine all day? Sounds nutty, but it would work and the town might be better served.
Opinions are like ____, we all have them.
#9 by DMc77 on December 6, 2013 - 10:14 PM
Scott our squad now consists of a suburban equipped for ALS and service calls. Our current staffing only allows for it to be in service when we have two personnel over minimum working that day. It amounts to being in service 10-15 days a year.
The new tower ladder will have a minimum complement of hose in compartments attached to the platform to be connected to the outlets in the event of a standpipe failure
#10 by Scott on December 6, 2013 - 5:03 PM
A mid-ship from a major player (as well as others) is a a big enough price difference in being higher that may put it out of the budget. However I see the price tag and will say, while not a lower profile, another manufacturer has a similar tower ladder for a price of $970,000….. Maybe the custominzation of the lower clearance accounts for the price increase.
And for any OKPK member, do you still have the “squad” (for the others, its a regular engine, but called a Sqd because of stafffing) that is run when manpower allows?
Finally, .002, CFD does not have any hose equipment on Trk co’s to leadout from hydrants. The straight aerials do have 100′ of 3″ to run up the ladder for an aerial pipe and necessary fittings and adapters.
#11 by DMc77 on December 6, 2013 - 3:24 PM
Josh if memory serves it is 11’4″. There will be some Oak Park viaducts it will not fit under, but we will remeasure in the spring to get a better measurement of them before the rig arrives.
In almost 13 years the current tower ladder quint led out only a handful of times being first due at a fire. This was mainly due to the first leading out engine having mechanical problems or an incipient fire where a quick blast with a preconnect would suffice. With a tank of only 300 gallons, it was decided to leave car, rubbish, and dumpster fires to the engines.
A mid mount platform was considered, but due to concerns over driving (rear swing out, etc.) and the lack of compartment space were early considerations against that design. When several manufacturers came back with rear mounted designs that met our height restrictions, the decision was then made to pursue a rear mount platform. The E-One design chosen will offer us full compartmentation, especially with not having a pump.
Although the Seagrave Aerialscope was an early favorite among some of the truck commmittee members, the price tag of the 95ft model came in at $1,250,000.
#12 by 0.02 on December 6, 2013 - 10:09 AM
I’m sure OP did their research into all of this before they bought this rig. Midmounts have their place just as rear mounts do, and maybe the rear mount is what the guys in OP felt met their needs.
The pump issue, once again depends on what their SOP’s are. I’m sure they’re gonna keep some loose hose, a nozzle and fittings to get on a hydrant on the rig so if they have an auto, rubbish or by chance are by themselves the can tie into a hydrant with their line and just use hydrant pressure. On a 2 1/2 line that is pretty sufficent. I think chicago does this for their trucks and towers.
#13 by rusty on December 6, 2013 - 9:48 AM
Beautiful Truck and I’m sure Oak Park worked hard on this project. But why are all of the Fire Departments trying to buy low-profile trucks and cramming everything. They could easily have gotten a mid-mount and been way below the height restrictions. But these departments are scared to buy one and then you get the departments that have a mid-mount and they swear by them. Mid-Mounts may swing in the back when you turn, but they have many advantages. Low Overall Height like 9ft 10″ , No bucket in your face when you are looking for the Overall Height Placard on a bridge, Easier Placement because turntable is right behind your head, The boom is a 5 section instead of a 3 Section so you can get the boom in tighter spots on tight streets (i.E FDNY). Just thoughts that’s all, but Oak Park seems really have done a nice job with this project.
#14 by Mike Mc on December 6, 2013 - 8:44 AM
Oak Park has only two engines and the tower ladder will be at the Euclid firehouse by itself, with the exception of the ambulances. Isn’t Oak Park concerned that some day, sooner or later, their new tower ladder will be parked in front of a burning building for several minutes with only hand pumps to douse the flames? Accidents, traffic, EMS runs, simultaneous calls,returning from another run, …. eventually, it’s going to happen. SIngle truck houses still exist in some large cities, such as Chicago, New York, and Seattle, but in the suburbs?
Could Oak Park operate the tower ladder with a tag along engine, such as a LAFD City light force?
#15 by Josh Boyajian on December 6, 2013 - 7:36 AM
Dan, whats the overall height of the new rig?