There has been much conversation since the 5-11 Alarm with 2 Specials at 3757 S. Ashland Avenue on January 22, 2013 about the deployment and status of Turret Wagon 6-7-1, also known as ‘Big Mo’. We recently received the following CFD Operations Order 11-003 that was issued August 16, 2011.
#1 by tom sullivan on January 28, 2013 - 7:43 PM
i would add a little to the information about 6-7-4 that was destroyed at the iron st. fire. the driver of that rig was cut off from escaping to the street and was forced to retreat to the bank of “bubbly creek”.
we were leading out a line to that sector when he came out of the shadows to tell us what happened !
that was one spectacular fire !!!
#2 by David on January 28, 2013 - 2:38 AM
Bill, another interesting thing I noted – as you wrote, one of the three original large deluge rigs then in service (Big John, Big Mo, Mack MB) was always ready to respond on every 2-11 alarm citywide. That makes me wonder why did they decide to change this when they could easily use 6-7-1 at every bigger fire and don’t have to wait until it escalates to a 5-11. I think (as someone wrote here before) that the CFD for some reason under-utilizes the rig despite the fact they could still use it quite effectively. One reason (for sure) would be the age of the truck, but then again, why didn’t they simply get a new chassis for the rig years back.
#3 by Bill Post on January 27, 2013 - 10:15 PM
I would like to make a correction and add a few details as to the original 674 which was also known by the nick name of “Little John”. Little John did indeed go in service in 1971 using the Jeep chassis with an elongated water pipe that was similar but much smaller than the piping on Big Moe or Big John. The two matching turrets had hand wheels to adjust the aim and angle of the streams and most of elongated piping was protected by a diamond plated shield on the left and right sides however that rig was taken out of service on November 30th 1977. The new 674 was using a Chevy chassis with two hand operated turrets similar to our current 676 and 673 turret wagons. That was the rig which was destroyed by the collapsing wall at 36th and Iron street. Little John was out of service about 2 and a half years before the collapse.
#4 by Bill Post on January 27, 2013 - 6:14 PM
David, I think that the CFD should re-evaluate their decision to retire the large deluge unit, and should if necessary consider remounting the turrets and piping onto a new chassis.
The New York City Fire Department has six Satellite hose wagons that are each equipped with a large Stang-style monitor behind the cab (very similar to the two monitors on our former 6-7-1 Turret Wagon). By having the monitor on a specially built hose wagon, they are making efficient use of the apparatus. The Satellite hose wagon concept dates back to 1965, and was originally part of the Super Pumper System that was in service from 1965 until 1982.
#5 by Bill Post on January 27, 2013 - 2:38 PM
Big Moe is long gone and was taken out of service in May of 1977 and Big John was taken out of service in December of 1978. For a very short period of time there were three large deluge units running out of Engine 42’s station. Six-seven-one (6-7-1) the large deluge unit that you are talking about had originally gone in service as 6-7-5 on December 27th 1976. Until May 6th (when Big Moe was taken out of service) there were Big Moe, Big John, and 6-7-5 running from the same station and they had dedicated drivers assigned to them. At least one of them would automatically respond to 2-11 alarms citywide. The others would also respond if the extra alarm would escalate further and they had enough of the rigs to go around if there were simultaneous extra alarms going on (which wasn’t that uncommon at times). Little John was officially numbered as 6-7-4 and ran out of Engine 5’s house (at the time) and they would also respond on the 2-11 alarms with a dedicated driver.
#6 by David on January 27, 2013 - 1:47 PM
I think that this fire just proved that no matter the fact it was taken out of service it can still be of a good use when a fire like this occurs. So one thing I’d like to know – does the CFD plan to replace this apparatus or will they simply leave the big deluge rigs to history.
#7 by Dennis on January 27, 2013 - 1:41 PM
6-7-2 aka Big Moe was taken out of service on May 6th 1977 @ Engine 42’s qtrs. The new 6-7-1 was put in service shortly after. (this rig is the current 6-7-1). Big Moe was on a Jeep chassis, but then rechassied on a military-style chassis and painted blue and white with CD logos.
#8 by spoung45 on January 27, 2013 - 1:35 PM
Something I just thought of why it could have been placed OOS. Possibly NFPA has an age limit on how long an apparatus unit can be in service for.
#9 by spoung45 on January 27, 2013 - 1:27 PM
I thought “Big-Mo” was 6-7-2 and she is long gone.
#10 by Bill Post on January 27, 2013 - 1:25 PM
There was no ‘Little Mo’. There was a ‘Little John’ mounted on a Jeep chassis that ran from November 1971 until August of 1980 when it was destroyed by falling walls at an extra-alarm fire at 36th and Iron near where the 5-11 and 2 special alarm fire happens to be.
The original 6-7-1 was called the Jeep Pressure Unit which was also mounted on a Jeep chassis. It had one deck gun or turret on it since it was put in service in 1960, it was a miniature high-pressure wagon that was used for attacking fires from embankments and could be driven into burning garages and loading docks and narrow alleys.
#11 by Dennis on January 27, 2013 - 1:24 PM
Neither this rig nor the other two turrent wagons have EVER been given names. This is NOT Big Moe, Little Moe, or Big John. The news media is wrong. The only rigs to be given names were the turrent wagons that were around in the 60s once they were scrapped that was it for the names. Side Note..They have always had a signature.
#12 by KB on January 27, 2013 - 1:13 PM
6-7-1 was always nicknamed “Little Mo.” “Big Mo” was a different piece of equipment.
#13 by Dan on January 27, 2013 - 11:45 AM
So little mo was renumbered as 671?
#14 by Turk-WLF on January 27, 2013 - 11:10 AM
Okay, offically ‘Big Mo’ is retired. but I wished it was little bit more detail on why it was retired. Like was it just age, lack of use.