New tower ladders for Chicago (more)

Updated production photos of one of the tower ladders for Chicago in production at E-ONE so#142016

E-ONE photo

Tags: Chicago Fire Department, E-ONE Cyclone II HP95 tower ladder being built, E-ONE so#142016, fire truck being built for Chicago, new tower ladders for Chicago

This entry was posted on September 4, 2018, 3:51 PM and is filed under Fire Department News, Fire truck being built, Fire Truck photos. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

28 Comments

#1 by Bill Post on September 28, 2018 - 6:02 AM

Thanks for the information on the dual axles. I also think the new aerials will end up looking like Evergreen Park Truck 44. Most of you know Chicago’s first rear mounted aerials with dual axles were from Pierce beginning with two rigs assigned to Trucks 47 and 52 and then all the units that followed. That doesn’t include the 135-foot E/One aerials delivered in 1984 and 1988 and of course the tower ladders. Those axles are also good for supporting the extra weight. Until the recent advent of the E/One Metro and the Pierce Ascendant, most rear mounted aerials of 100 feet or more over the last 20 years have been built with the dual axles. I am assuming that was because of raising the safety and design standards. Chicago purchased amongst the last of the single-axle aerials in 2000 with nine E/Ones that are still in use along with 14 Seagrave Patriot aerials purchased from 1993 to 1996. After 1986 the New York City Fire Department purchased all of it’s rear mounted aerials with tandem axles. Chicago was rather late in the game when they started purchasing dual axle aerials. I think that was because there was no longer a choice.

As you know Chicago was E/Ones earliest customers and I remember when they purchased those first five E/One engines on Ford chassis in 1976. I remember seeing Engine 70’s new rig at a Still and Box alarm only about a block away from where I live. I remember Engine 56’s rig which was slightly larger then Engine 70’s. In 1982 Chicago purchased nine Hendrickson E/One trucks which were all 110 footers.

The CFD has an option of purchasing the HM model truck in either a 100-foot or 110-foot configuration however the 110-foot has a 300-pound tip load while the HM100 is rated at 550 pounds.
One of the things that I also like about the E/One ladders is that most of them have a higher side hand rail which makes climbing the aerial a little more comfortable and safer for firefighters. That extra large cabinet space on the HM bodies is also good. It would be a good idea if Chicago started carrying more extrication and squad type gear on some the trucks such as airbags. Do you remember that before November 2003 only about one third of the trucks had Hurst tools?

I am suggesting that about one third of the trucks have airbags and perhaps some other gear so that those could be designated as heavy extrication trucks. They would mainly be assigned to companies in the outlying areas and near expressways on the far ends of the squad’s districts. That would come in handy so they wouldn’t always have to wait for the squads if airbags were needed especially if the squads were tied up on other runs. Quite a few other cities have dedicated extrication truck companies. For example Milwaukee has about a half dozen. The same goes for Houston, New York, and in Los Angeles where all of the trucks carry airbags. While it would be cost prohibitive to put them on every truck at once, I would suggest them on about 20 trucks around the city which is what Chicago did with the Hurst tools before they were assigned to every truck. That would take some of the burden off of the squads and might also help end the debate of whether Chicago should put another squad company on the South Side. Such designated truck companies would also be able to supplement the squads and the collapse unit at building collapses.
#2 by Big Moe on September 27, 2018 - 9:46 AM

Additionally, tandem rear axles are better at carrying and distributing weight and providing braking power to the rig, much more so than providing traction.
#3 by Big Moe on September 27, 2018 - 9:38 AM

The Pierce rearmounts were and are medium duty ladders with a single outrigger and a 250lb tip load. The Pierce heavy-duty ladder is the 105′ with dual outriggers (Aerial Tower 1). The HM100 is not E-Ones heaviest duty ladder, both the HP100 and the CR100 are rated higher than the HM. Maybe it will look something like Evergreen Parks rig.
#4 by Mike on September 27, 2018 - 9:12 AM

I didn’t read the spec but figured it would be duals because I think they want a heavy duty ladder. I believe the pierce was heavy duty but the crimsons were medium duty. I don’t think you can get a heavy duty ladder on a metro package.
#5 by Marty Coyne on September 27, 2018 - 8:53 AM

Bill, the contract specifies tandem rear axles in the required specs.
#6 by Bill Post on September 26, 2018 - 11:07 PM

So Mike it looks to me that the truck E/One will sell to Chicago will be the HM100 or possibly the HM110 as they offer the 11-foot jack spread, the low travel height option, plus dual rear axles.
Now I know that some people on this site would like to see Chicago get the newer Metro 100 however the HM100/110 seems a little more solid to me and the dual rear axles would appear to offer more traction. I don’t know if the contract requires a dual rear axle but if it doesn’t I would still go with the HM100/110. Mike or Marty do have any information on the rear axle requirement?
#7 by Marty Coyne on September 26, 2018 - 9:50 PM

Bill, the original contract was written with several specifications that only E-One meets. Who knows why the city pushed it off. Funds or maybe to make a one rigged bid 100+ million $ contract look a little better.
#8 by Mike on September 26, 2018 - 9:47 PM

Bill I don’t think it was the engines that caused this. Spartan ERV / Crimson hasn’t had good luck with ladder trucks especially tower ladders. I know E-One has had some lemons but the Crimsons/ ERV have been bad. Plus the guys like the short jack spread on the e/ones better the the 18-21 foot spread from the Crimson/ ERV.
#9 by Bill Post on September 26, 2018 - 9:09 PM

Yes Mike that is a very good point in terms of having most of the rigs from the same manufacturer. I was very impressed with how Chicago had more or less standardized their pumper fleet. From 1992 on to 2012, with the exception of the O’Hare’s Pierce engines and the American LaFrance and Freightliner engines delivered in 2000, all of Chicago’s engines were either Luverne, Crimson, or ERV. These were really the same company with a different name due to mergers and acquisitions. The majority of those were built on Spartan chassis with the exception of the 18 that were built on HME chassis between 1997 and 1999. Those were a mistake, they were uncomfortable and unpopular with the crews. So the question is what went wrong? Was it that the rigs were failing mechanically and electronically or was it that Spartan ERV was giving poor customer service?
#10 by Mike on September 26, 2018 - 7:52 PM

Bill when they did that in 2008 it was actually a smart move. Most of the engines are spartan and the trucks were mostly pierce. So making the fleet all the same isn’t a bad idea and even though the apparatus may cost more in the long run it would be cheaper. Less training, less inventory. Now it sounds like that’s what they’re gonna do with the E-Ones over the next 5 years. Standardize fleet.
#11 by Bill Post on September 26, 2018 - 7:07 PM

So Marty, I wonder why Chicago postponed the bidding deadline 5 times since April when they obviously knew who was going to get the contract and who they wanted to bid? Perhaps it was to give the document department time to properly word the Request for Bid Proposals so that only E/One could seriously submit a bid for the contract?

It really is ironic that in 2008/09, the last time Chicago requested bids for aerial ladder trucks, that E/One was the lowest bidder in the third and final round, yet the Department of Fleet Management passed over the two lowest bidders to give that contract to Spartan Erv. Now Spartan Erv didn’t even bid on the current contract. So the powers that be must be regretting that they didn’t give the ladder contract to E/One in 2009. It looks like Chicago paid thru the nose for that contract.
#12 by Marty Coyne on September 26, 2018 - 5:08 PM

Here ya go. Only E-One and Pierce were listed and Pierce did not bid. Chicago worded the requirements so only E-One met them and anyone else would have to alter their manufacturing.

https://webapps1.cityofchicago.org/VCSearchWeb/org/cityofchicago/vcsearch/controller/bidTabs/searchBidders.do?index=3
#13 by Bill Post on September 26, 2018 - 3:45 PM

Eugene O. The bidding deadline was only 2 days ago on September 24th. Nevertheless I heard from someone who was there that only E/One submitted a bid. That is a surprise even for Chicago as the pre-bid conference in March had representatives from Pierce, E/One, and the local dealers from Pierce, E/One, and Rosenbauer. Unless the bid is rejected which Chicago has been known to do then it is safe to assume that E/One will get the contract. Either way it is not official as of yet.
#14 by eugene O on September 26, 2018 - 1:29 PM

any news on who was award the bidding contact thanks?
#15 by Rich S. on September 10, 2018 - 1:33 PM

After all the issues and poor service from Pierce I would not expect to see another Pierce anything purchased by Chicago.
#16 by Daniel Hynd on September 10, 2018 - 11:27 AM

I think the Pierce Ascendant 100 would be a good choice for the city if they were to go with a mid mount. It’s a lot smaller than a normal RM tower and quite compact.
#17 by Rich S. on September 10, 2018 - 7:53 AM

FDNY uses aerialscopes big difference from a TL and Chicago operations are not the same as FDNY. We need smaller trucks like the 11 ft jack spread and 10’9” travel height E-One metro. And some tillers in some places would help greatly.
#18 by Big Moe on September 10, 2018 - 7:18 AM

Mid mount towers do have some advantages. Lower center of gravity, lower overall travel height, shorter nested length (used to get bucket in scrub areas at low levels or put bucket on the ground), sometimes shorter wheel base. These advantages don’t automatically cause one to go that route, but they must be weighed against a pro/con list to choose the correct unit for each specific application. FDNY has 70+ mid-ship mounted towers.
#19 by Rich S. on September 9, 2018 - 8:30 PM

We need to run away from anything pierce! stick with E-One better jack spread better aerial ladder better rig period, we need to get some Metro trucks 100′ ladder on a single axle so we can get down the streets again, Also we should get a few Tillers again, maybe trucks 25, 13, 41, 44. would help tremendously with the tight streets in those stills. There is no advantage to a mid mount tower ladder.
#20 by Chris S on September 9, 2018 - 4:50 PM

I like the blacked out steps
#21 by FLEET GUY on September 6, 2018 - 5:11 PM

These two new towers are slated for 5 & 21. Planning two more coming next year to replace 10 & yes 34. There is a real push to get rid of the last 1985 open cap spares E 248 & E 252 also the 1988’s as well e-264 & e-265 parts are becoming very hard to get and they are just unsafe. That would leave a good supply of spare towers. 3 1996 LTI’s – E 280, E 281, E283 (21), and after the next to 2 in 2019 2002 pierce’s E 315 (34 now) & E 316 (10). TL-5 current rig is going to be junked. This could change a little there was some testing at the QFA this summer pierce’s mid-mount tower ladder and some talk of making a new tower ladder co. again out south maybe t-27 or t-40, plus moving the Aerial Tower from downtown out west perhaps t-7. But with all the CFD changes in the command staff and new mayor, it will all grind to a very slow pace.
#22 by harry on September 5, 2018 - 2:52 PM

I see the back is slighty different from 14 37 and 39
#23 by Matt on September 5, 2018 - 8:02 AM

For small compartments, hinged doors work better as the rollup door drum reduces the space in the compartment and shrinks the door opening. In the same way, the drip rail extrusions hide/cover the top of the door and the drum for the door. As to companies, you will find out when they are pushed in the station and the decals have been applied.
#24 by rich s. on September 4, 2018 - 9:13 PM

? whats with the blue lights? that guy is gone from CFD and we have always have Red and Green lights it’s time to get beck to our tradition and start with he little things to boost moral
#25 by harry on September 4, 2018 - 6:40 PM

I hope it has blue lights too but if it does not it is still a nice rig and very much needed rig
#26 by Crabby Milton on September 4, 2018 - 5:19 PM

Looks great.
Where’s the green light?
#27 by Rj on September 4, 2018 - 4:15 PM

Looks pretty good, miss the old halogen rotators on the rear though. Odd combo of roll-up and hinged doors. Exaggerated diamond plate drip channels over the roll up doors look out of place.
#28 by Larry on September 4, 2018 - 4:05 PM

Still not marked yet? I would like to know what this rig is gonna be assigned to…