From Larry Shapiro for #TBT:
For #TBT, some images of aerial apparatus in Winnetka over the years
Winnetka FD FWD / 65′ Snorkel. Larry Shapiro photo
Winnetka FD Truck 70 – American LaFrance Ladder Chief mid-mount aerial. Larry Shapiro photo
Winnetka FD FWD / 65′ Snorkel. Larry Shapiro photo
Winnetka FD Truck 28 – Pierce Arrow 75′ quint. Larry Shapiro photo
Winnetka FD Truck 28 – 2010 Spartan Sirius / Smeal 2000/350 75′ RM Quint. Larry Shapiro photo
#1 by Drew Smith on May 27, 2025 - 3:54 PM
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To get the article you would have to make an interlibrary loan request using your local library. Seems like a lot of work.
I had every issue of Fire Chief Magazine from 1975-when it went defunct. Having rarely used those copies and running out of storage space in my him I disposed of them knowing they were in the National Fire Academy library. I now regret that decision but don’t know where I would have stored them either.
#2 by The DH on May 27, 2025 - 2:09 PM
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Chief,
That link doesn’t seem to take you to the article, unless I am missing something? Seems like something that would be interesting to read.
#3 by Drew Smith on May 24, 2025 - 11:10 PM
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Four-wheel steering, four-wheel drive unit serves suburban community
Paid-on-call firefighter Robin Pendergrast tells why the Winnetka (Illinois) Fire Department selected an elevating platform unit with four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering capability.
In Fire chief vol. 20 (10, whole number 235) (October 1976).
https://usfa.bibliovation.com/app/work/233596
#4 by Drew Smith on May 24, 2025 - 11:00 PM
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If you look at the rear axle of the snorkel, it appears to be a super single setup. I say that because back in the 1970s Winnetka had a snorkel where at low speed the rear axle steered along with the front axle (and perhaps this is that rig). It was featured in an article in the now defunct Fire Chief Magazine. As I recall, the intent was that the snorkel could be maneuvered up tight driveways of the larger homes in the community, some of which were three stories tall.
#5 by Matt on May 23, 2025 - 3:44 PM
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FWD appeared on either 4WD apparatus or chassis supplied to other builders. 2WD pumpers built by Seagrave typically have Seagrave nameplates.
During this era, some of these rigs were built by Clintonville Fire Apparatus such as the Wilmette snorkel squad already mentioned. The Wilmette and later Evergreen Park snorkel was a 50’ boom.
#6 by Bill Post on May 23, 2025 - 3:42 PM
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Thanks Phil.
Even though this somewhat of a different subject, I real worried about whats going on with the Negotiations with Chicago Local 2 and the Brandon Johnson administration.
If you have been following things you know the Local 2 would like 20 more Ambulances in service while City Hall wants to double the manpower variances from 35 to 70 while Local 2 wants to reduce the variances.
As you probably know Chicago can’t afford to lose the 5th man as the 5th man does make a big difference at a working fire. As of a few weeks ago it looked to me like they were going to go to arbitration.
As far as more Ambulances going in service ,you and I know that the Ambulances are overworked however there are some solutions for that which includes putting ambulances on split shifts like they do in New York and some other cities. When an ambulance can have 15 or more runs in 24 hours I see no reason why they can’t put them on 8 or even 12 hour shifts.
There also some cities that use what is known as “Power Shift” ambulances where during the busier hours more ambulances are put in service. They do that in both Dallas Texas and Phoenix Arizona and there are some places where they have a seperate EMS department. Austin Texas and Toronto Canada are good examples and even though the New York City Fire Department runs ambulances technically speaking they are still like a seperate department as all of their ambulance run on split shifts like the police department does and with a few recent exceptions the New York City Fire Ambulance run out of separate stations and even then they station them at street corner locations and not at the EMS stations when on duty.
Local 2 needs to remain strong and not let them give up the 5th man on the Engines or the Trucks.
#7 by Phil Stenholm on May 23, 2025 - 2:49 PM
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BILL: Wilmette Squad 201 was a 1974 Seagrave snorkel-squad very similar to CFD SS-1 (I’m pretty sure it had a 50-ft boom) that replaced a 1951 Seagrave 65-ft junior aerial-quint (the previous 201), and Winnetka Snorkel-Engine 74 was a 1984(?) FWD (Seagrave) snorkel-quint. The Wilmette snorkel-squad was a jump-rig that was staffed by an ambulance crew for fire calls or by an engine company for rescues (like for extrication at a traffic accident).
I’m not sure of the exact year of the Winnetka FWD, but I know the Winnetka snorkel-engine replaced a Winnetka engine on Evanston’s MABAS box card around 1984. (There was no snorkel due on Evanston’s MABAS box card prior to that, even though Skokie had a 1968 Pirsch snorkel-truck and Wilmette had the 1974 Seagrave snorkel-squad).
I remember Winnetka Engine 77 (a 1969 American LaFrance 1000 GPM TCP) and Truck 70 (the matching 1969 ALF 85-ft aerial ladder truck that you see in Larry Shapiro’s second from the top photo above) responded to fire calls in Winnetka, Kenilworth, and unincorporated areas between Winnetka and Wilmette 1970-85, so a two-man “jump” crew staffed Winnetka Ambulance 71 (originally a Cadillac ambulance that was replaced by an MICU in 1974) and then jumped to the truck when it needed to be manned (presuming the ambulance was in quarters).
I also remember at some point around 1985 the Wilmette, Winnetka, Glencoe, and Northfield fire departments initiated an automatic-aid agreement so they could keep their MICU ambulances in service without having to use the paramedic crews to jump onto other rigs, and I believe that is probably when Winnetka Snorkel-Engine 74 was placed into service, and the Wilmette Snorkel-Squad 201 was taken out of front-line service.
In the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s Winnetka had POC guys who would respond to the WFD fire station (STAT!) and staff Ambulance 70, Engine 76 (a 1958 Pirsch pumper that was the second pumper behind Engine 77), and Squad 72 (a 1958 Metro delivery van) whenever Engine 70 and Truck 70 went out on a fire call (even if it wasn’t a confirmed working fire), but I am pretty sure the Winnetka POC system was limited to working fires once the four town automatic aid agreement was put into place.
#8 by Bill Post on May 23, 2025 - 11:36 AM
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It’s interesting that the “Snorkel” has FWD on ir which is Four Wheel Drive of course and by the time this was photographed FWD actually bought out Seagrave but aside from having FWD on the Hood was there really any difference between a FWD and Seagrave product as just one look at the rig you can see that it looked like a Seagrave.
I was also wondering how did that Snorkel function when Winnetka had it , in other words was it a first line company or was it a reserve or a Jump company and did it function as an Truck, Squad or an Engine as if you’ll notice it was built on a Engine body “crosslays”included?.
I know that the next town to south of Winnetka also had a “Snorkel Engine” that was quite similar or perhaps it was the same rig but possibly sold to it’s neighbor? Perhaps someone on this site knows the story as this was taken before I had a chance to visit there?.
Does any one know how the currently man their companies? Supposedly they had 6 people on duty per shift which is supposed to include a Captain, a Lieutenant and 4 Firefighter Paramedics. That would leave 3 men for Engine 28 and 2 men for Ambulance 28 and one for the Battalion 28s SUV however those numbers would mean that they would not be able to man the Truck unless they “jump” the crew off of the Ambulance to man the Truck or they would “jump” the crew off of the Engine to man the Truck. Either way it looks to me that they would have to choose between the Ambulance and the Truck or the Truck and the Engine. It is not good choice if a full still alarm is coming in and you don’t have enough people to man the Engine , Truck and ambulance simultaneously.
I last had heard that Deerfield Illinois (a pretty wealthy suburb) several miles northwest of Winnetka would have their Ambulance crew at Station 20 “Jump” between the Ambulance and the Truck. It would be bad enough to have a Truck with only 2 people assigned to it but the have to take the Ambulance or the Engine out service in order to man the Truck is more than ridiculous but potentially dangerous if you have serious fire or an accident with people pinned in. Perhaps they have increased their manpower by now but I wouldn’t bet on it.
#9 by crabbymilton on May 22, 2025 - 1:55 PM
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Nice looking rigs there. The first thing when I see that squiggly roof on the station is the old TREASURE ISLAND stores.