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#1 by Craig on February 5, 2018 - 1:11 AM
As was stated a couple times, the Houston/Galveston Consortium (HGAC) is basically like a purchasing pool. It is a way for purchasers to avoid the competitive bidding process. You have to pay a fee to participate in the consortium. How it works with fire apparatus is the consortium compiles prices from many companies for base models. They will have a price for many types of apparatus from commercial pumper, custom pumper, commercial tanker, custom tanker, 75 foot ladder, 100 ft ladder, tower ladder, etc. Most of the apparatus builders participate in the consortium. So with Chicago, they would have selected the base model of tower ladder that most met their needs and then worked from that baseline model to make modifications. Back when the previous towers were ordered, they subtracted the tank and pump, and the base price of the apparatus was therefore reduced.
My department purchased our most recent engine from Rosenbauer through the HGAC program. Prior to that we had always done competitive bidding. Our city administrator wanted us to try the HGAC so we did. It did save some time without having to do the competitive bidding process, but in the end we were not necessarily convinced that we got the most competitive price. The process did allow for customization as we added quite a few things that did not come with the base model.
Hopefully that helps explain the program as it has nothing to do with the Houston Fire Department.
#2 by danny on February 4, 2018 - 12:15 PM
bill as far as ive heard they are LDV and will be like the new 272
#3 by Marty Coyne on February 4, 2018 - 12:36 AM
The original tower ladder contract specified a whole list of equipment to be deleted. Included were pumps, aluminum wheels etc. Also listed were the cost subtractions for the deleted equipment as well the the stuff added by Chicago. That doesn’t seem like rigs speced for Chicago from the start
#4 by Bill Post on February 4, 2018 - 12:34 AM
John Antkowski the three CFD E/One towers that were delivered about 2 years ago were initially specified off the Houston/Galvestion area contract however the original specs were cancelled before the they were built. They otherwise would have had a 1,500 gallon-per-minute pump and a 300-gallon tank plus a few other items.
They wouldn’t have gone to the Houston Fire Department however as with the exception of the last tower ladder that was put in service during 2016 at the George Bush International Airport, none of the tower ladders are or ever were quints, and all have twin turrets in the basket. Houston’s other five tower ladders were put in service within a few years of each other. The first three were Tower Ladders 18, 6, and 69 going from east to west in more or less the center of the city. They were all assigned E/One apparatus. A few years later two Pierce units went to Tower Ladders 6 and 18. Tower Ladder 6 is the most centrally located. The two E/Ones from Tower Ladders 6 and 18 were used to create new companies at Tower Ladders 21 and 64. Tower Ladder 21 is in southwest Houston and Tower Ladder 64 is on the far north end near the southern tip of George Bush Airport. Because Tower Ladder 64 is so close to the airport I really don’t know why they put Tower AR8, a quint in service at the airport. Houston also runs with 33 rear mounted ladder companies, a few of which are quints. They have quints located in areas where the second due companies are a good distance away. Of the three quints that I know of in Houston only one is without an engine company.
You could be thinking of the Austin Texas Fire Department where most of the towers and trucks are quints or perhaps Fort Worth who runs with many quints.
#5 by Rich on February 3, 2018 - 11:35 PM
All of these E-One rigs have spec’d and built as CFD rigs from the start. The TL’s are as built. These were never Houston rigs. The Houston/Galveston consortium is a purchasing pool to allow municipalities to purchase in a pool with each other. The rigs don’t have to be the same spec in other words they pay a fee and are allowed to purchase so more numbers purchased =‘s less expensive. You spec your rig
#6 by John Antkowski on February 3, 2018 - 7:43 PM
Cool, thanks Bill. Was the other towers listed as Chicago or Houston and didn’t they have to re-configure the body without a pump? I thought I read it somewhere because Houston’s towers are quints? I could be wrong. John
#7 by Bill on February 3, 2018 - 6:56 PM
Who is building the command vans
#8 by Aidan Hughes on February 3, 2018 - 5:53 PM
I think Engine 39 should get one of those because they have an older rig and Engine 103 should get one of them as well if necessary
#9 by Bill Post on February 3, 2018 - 4:22 PM
John Antkowski, Marty Coyne and anyone else who may be interested. While I don’t know if E/One has started building the two new tower ladders, I can tell you a little about the Houston/Galveston Area consortium that the tower ladders were ordered through. First it shouldn’t be confused with an add-on order for the Houston Fire Department. The Houston/Galveston Area consortium is a regional cooperative purchasing body that was setup by Texas state law in 1971 to help local agencies purchase heavy-duty equipment including fire trucks. Fire departments can purchase some of their equipment more or less in a pool, and out of state fire departments can also take part in it if similar equipment is also being purchased.
This order and the previous one for three tower ladders has very little to do the Houston Fire Department.
For example the Houston Fire Department hasn’t purchased E/One tower ladders since the late 1990s/early 2000s. Houston only runs six tower ladders and the last one purchased was a Rosenbauer Cobra for George Bush International Airport. The one before that was SpartanErv in 2015. Most of the straight aerial ladders in recent years have been from SpartanErv and Ferrara. While they have some E/Ones, they are being replaced. The body configurations of Houston’s newest tower ladders and aerial ladders feature more cabinet space and are somewhat taller than Chicago’s.
So the purchase is being done through a regional agency and not through the Houston Fire Department.
#10 by John Antkowski on February 3, 2018 - 3:22 PM
Have they started building the two towers at e one? Are they designated as Chicago or Houston? I also checked basic shop numbers and nothing looks like a CFD rig. I enjoy watching the process of them being built. Thank you John Antkowski
#11 by Bill Post on February 3, 2018 - 2:57 PM
Michael M, Engine 94’s house is very small and Engine 30 also has a very narrow house and they still have managed to fit a Spartan/Luverne inside even though it is a tight squeeze. Engine 59 in my opinion should have gotten one before Engine 71 who had a newer rig then Engine 59. Engine 59 takes ALS runs and fires in Edgewater, Rogers Park, and in Uptown. These areas are more congested and have more fires then West Ridge (West Rogers Park and Budlong Woods).
#12 by Billy Smith on February 3, 2018 - 11:43 AM
Hey David great comment about a Mack TerraPro. The problem is Mack is considerably more than a Durastar and in this case you “get what you pay for.”
The Terra Pro will last 20 years, and would get a great resale value the Durastar is basically a cheap “disposable” chassis and will be sitting at 103rd/Doty in 10 years with all the other scrap rigs.
#13 by Michael M on February 3, 2018 - 11:40 AM
That would be great if Engine 11 and 59 received one of these new engines. Interesting how they are trying to prepare Engine 94’s house for the new rig. I Even if they are able to fit the new engine into 94’s house, I am sure it will still be a tight fit.
#14 by Pete on February 3, 2018 - 9:58 AM
Thanks Bill post. Very informative.
#15 by Rich on February 3, 2018 - 8:56 AM
The bay door on 94’s House is a temporary door from what I know. They do need to make some adjustments for the new rig.
#16 by Danny on February 3, 2018 - 8:37 AM
Bill they put a new door on 94s house several months back.. it looks like one of those Detroit style room up doors with no windows on it at all and someone who I know works at 94 said they had engine 125 with their e one over to test the fit as well
#17 by Bill Post on February 3, 2018 - 6:42 AM
Aidan you are correct that based on the oldest rigs still in frontline service Engines 94, 80, and 104 should be the next rigs to be replaced as they are all 1997 Hme/Luvernes. The next oldest rigs are short wheelbase Hme/Luvernes at Engines 11,59,103,74, and 39. The first four that I mentioned are 1998 models and Engine 39 is a 1999. There is a question as to whether the new E/Ones can fit into Engine 94’s house or not. I am not sure about that but I did here some speculation about it as 94 is in very small house. They might need to modify the front door but that is only speculation on my part.
Of course the new rigs could also be assigned to other companies and the HME/Luvernes could be replaced with hand-me-down rigs like the fire department sometimes does.
#18 by Bill Post on February 3, 2018 - 6:31 AM
Pete the only way to know if the city would buy more Rosenbauer products would be if they opened bids for specific apparatus and Rosenbauer met the technical specifications and offered the best price compared to the competition’s bids. Servicing, warranty, and delivery date are factored in as well.
But in the real world that doesn’t always happen. Yes I am saying sometimes deals are made “under the table”.
A few years ago around 2009/10 the city put out a request for bids for rear mounted aerial ladders. It took the city over a year to finally award the contract. Did you know that during the year the department of fleet management rejected the bids at least twice and they had to call for bid resubmissions. After the final group of bid submissions the four manufacturers that were still involved in the bidding were Ferrara, Spartan/Crimson, Pierce, and E/One. The way I understand it is that E/One was the lowest bidder, then, Pierce and Spartan/Crimson with Ferrara supposedly the highest. So who do you think won the contract after waiting more than a year and going through at least three bids? It was Spartan/Crimson even though E/One and Pierce were lower.
In regards to the current squads built by Rosenbauer, when the bidding took place American LaFrance owned the rights to build the Snorkel brand however the owners of American LaFrance had stopped building Snorkels and they refused to sell the rights. Rosenbauer was the only company willing to develop and build a boom similar to the Snorkel so they won the contract.
Since then American LaFrance went out of business and the rights to the Snorkel were sold to Smeal which now is part of Spartan.
#19 by Aidan Hughes on February 2, 2018 - 8:27 PM
Engines 80, 94, and 104 should get one of those new rigs along with engines 38, 81, 92 and 116.
#20 by Pete on February 2, 2018 - 6:34 PM
Does anyone think CFD will or would buy any more Rosenbauer rigs? Engines? Trucks? C.F.R. for the airports? Would a T-rex work for the 135? Just curious?
#21 by David on February 2, 2018 - 5:16 AM
New chassis for the Scuba truck?? Would be great to see a 2 axle Mack TerraPro under that box. I’d just love to see a Mack in the CFD fleet again, but I guess that something like an IHC Durastar is far more likely.
#22 by Bill Post on February 1, 2018 - 8:44 PM
You’re forgeting about Tower Ladder 63 which is also Pierce. So half of them would be E/Ones and half of them would be Pierces.
Even though it probably won’t happen I would like to see a another tower ladder on the far south side to help cover the 21st Battalion and part of the 22nd Battalion. Truck 40 would be a good location for one and the station is probably large enough. Truck 62 could accommodate one as that is where Tower Ladder 37 was originally located before they decided to move the tower ladder from Truck 62 to Truck 37. Given the choice I would give one to Truck 40. Tower Ladder 34 still has a very large district,
#23 by Rich S. on February 1, 2018 - 7:24 PM
yes but I wouldn’t be surprised if tower 10 gets a new rig there rig is pretty beat up and it downtown.
#24 by Paul Schlichting on February 1, 2018 - 7:18 PM
That will leave four Pierce’s I would assume that towers 21 and 5 will get the new rigs they are the oldest, that leaves towers 10,23,54,34 with Pierces
#25 by Brian on February 1, 2018 - 5:00 PM
That would put all but two of the Tower companies in E-One’s then, correct?
#26 by Rich S. on February 1, 2018 - 4:53 PM
Trucks 3,13,19,25,28,32,38,41,44,58 would be great choices for some tillers to fit down the tight streets and they all have room in the houses for them.
#27 by Rich S. on February 1, 2018 - 4:48 PM
We could use about 45 new E-one metro 100′ trucks. I think 10 E-one Tillers placed in a few spots would be a great idea too. the streets are crazy tight in some still districts.
#28 by Marty Coyne on February 1, 2018 - 3:21 PM
Yes two new Tower ladders were ordered from E-One on 11/30/17. They “added” them to the original joint procurement with Houston. This seems to be the new norm. Keep extending existing contracts to avoid pesky things like bidding etc.
#29 by Michael M on February 1, 2018 - 2:08 PM
Have the two tower ladders also been ordered from E-One?
#30 by Mabas Guy on February 1, 2018 - 1:29 PM
2 comm vans on order
2 tower ladders
13 Buggys
And a new chassis for 687
#31 by Michael M on February 1, 2018 - 1:09 PM
I am guessing they are going to be picked up and taken to Fire service inc. first then go to the shops.
#32 by Michael M on February 1, 2018 - 1:04 PM
Nice looking engines! I also hope one of them goes to an ok part of the city.
#33 by Aidan Hughes on February 1, 2018 - 10:44 AM
I agree with gnarldtoad. CFD needs new tower ladders, ladders and a 137’ for Aerial Tower 1. Do they have those on order?
#34 by CrabbyMilton on February 1, 2018 - 6:25 AM
Looks sharp and you can smell the new paint from here.
#35 by Mike on January 31, 2018 - 11:02 PM
Bob that would make to much sense for the city to do that. No even just because of the light wagon but it would be good to light the scene up anyway.
#36 by Bob on January 31, 2018 - 10:56 PM
With LED lighting what it is today I’m surprised they don’t add some type of area work lighting on the new rigs. You never see the light wagons at fires anymore. I think it would be a good investment.
#37 by harry on January 31, 2018 - 10:08 PM
I hope one of these goes to an engine in an ok part of the city
#38 by gnarldtoad on January 31, 2018 - 8:36 PM
Good looking engine!!!! now they need about 24 more of them, 3 more towers and 12 – 100 ft and 1 – 137 e one ladder for starters