More images of Northfield Squad 29 which was placed into service recently
Northfield Squad 29. 2013 E-ONE Cyclone II E-Max 1500/750/10/20. Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
Larry Shapiro photo
New pumper/squad for Northfield (more)
Pingback: A tale of two cities … « chicagoareafire.com
#1 by T. B. on May 15, 2014 - 9:10 AM
To all who have commented on this, I think there has been some very adequate and interesting thoughts. We all are interested in the fire service, or we wouldn’t be visiting and commenting. When a new apparatus picture from a department is posted, questions may arise about that department and how it operates too. I know there are people who are both for and against unions, but the bottom line is people cannot take comments so personally. I find that most the union comments are related to job security of the full time firefighters union or not. Manning is a huge issue these days, as well as the other issues like POC, POP and volunteer. Constructive criticism and questions are what make this site so interesting. Obviously some comments in the past have crossed the line, but being able to ask and answer questions can be interesting and may get heated at times. With that being said, lets carry on union or not, full time or part time and enjoy this site. Maybe these controversial topics could be separate posts and some restrained discussion could take place. We all may learn something new?
#2 by The DH on May 14, 2014 - 10:48 PM
RPF, there are a number of suburbs that operate on a POC/part-time basis where many of the FFs are full-time union guys elsewhere…do I agree with that? No, not really, for reasons unrelated to this thread, but that is neither here nor there….a couple other departments like Northfield are Evergreen Park, York Center FPD, Crestwood, Summit, Stickney, just to name a few.
#3 by RPF on May 14, 2014 - 7:41 PM
So it’s not a Union shop but Union members work there?!?!?!?!?
#4 by Bill S on May 14, 2014 - 2:41 PM
Straight from http://www.northfieldil.org
Pay-Per-Shift Program
On May 1st, 2004 the Fire-Rescue Department transitioned to a pay-per-shift department hiring fulltime fire and rescue personnel from surrounding communities to operate in a part time scheduling arrangement. The pay-per-shift program was implemented to address concerns regarding employee recruitment and hiring, and to improve general response time of emergency service personnel. After the transition to a pay-per-shift program, the Northfield Fire-Rescue Department now has the capabilities to provide full emergency services coverage on a 24, 365 basis to all residents within the community and surrounding areas.
#5 by Hugo on May 13, 2014 - 7:03 PM
highwood purchased the old pierce from northfield
#6 by Manpower Supporter on May 13, 2014 - 4:48 PM
T.B… I don’t work there nor near there. Are you on the job anywhere? I think the point most are missing is more “small” communities should be happy with or try to run at least 6. There are plenty of towns that do this but they will run 2 on each rig; then the “critics” are complaining that why don’t they run one rig with 4-6?? You can win with all the Monday morning quarterbacking! 6 personnel is NOT out of line for a shift for a “small” community. You can call this apparatus whatever you want, it is still and engine w/Water, hose & pump. Just more compartment space and a glorified name.
#7 by T. B. on May 11, 2014 - 9:55 PM
Manpower Supporter,
It kind of sounds like you are taking this personal? I support 3, 4, 5 or 6 people per rig! I just don’t understand how a small community can have such good manpower? The call volume and location of calls does not support your theory. No one has once questioned that if there is a critical patient, that the squad goes back with four!
#8 by Manpower Supporter on May 11, 2014 - 11:08 AM
You guys are amazing.. if they had 12-15 on shift you’d be complaining they have too many. If they ran all their equipment with 2 only, you’ d be complaining they don’ have enough. They run ONE FIRE APPARATUS WITH ONLY with 4 and an Ambulance with 2 and your complaining how can they have 4 ON THE SQUAD??? 6 on duty for 24hrs (if that is indeed what is done), sounds pretty fair for the call volume they have. How about you let the Chief an Sqd officer decide how the guys are used on a call. You really think if there is critical patient they go back with all 4 on the Squad??? Get a life guys!
#9 by 0.03 on May 9, 2014 - 6:14 AM
It’s probably pretty easy to run 4 man companies when all the employer is paying for is manpower and they are probably paying a substandard wage to do this. Bill your manpower point is valid too. People shouldn’t be complaining about 4 man companies while saying it’s ok to run 2 man companies. Highland park, Bolingbrook, crystal lake, lake forest are just some examples of suburbs running 2 man companies.
#10 by Bill Post on May 8, 2014 - 10:26 PM
On the subject of 4 man companies in the suburbs Skokie was running it’s Squad (18) as a 4 man company and it’s Rescue 17 (which really is an Engine company with some Truck and Squad equipment on it) also had run with 4 men on it on a regular basis until October 20 2003 when the New Ambulance company 17 was put in service at the new Station 17 that was only opened since July 28th 2003.
Skokie took the 4th man off of Squad 18 and Rescue 17 so they wouldn’t have to add 6 or 7 new positions to the Skokie Fire Department pay roll.
Before that the Squad had run with one more man assigned to it then the regular Engines and Trucks and Rescue 17 had been running with 4 men because it had been running as an ALS engine to cover the east end of Skokie until they finally decided to put an Ambulance in service at station 17.
Rescue 17 was originally put in service as Rescue “Truck” 17 in 1980 with a Ford/ E-One ALS Engine company. The reason why they used the term Truck is because they had actually replaced a straight Truck company which was orginally Skokie Truck 1 before they renumbered the fire companies in Skokie and MABAS Division 3 (to match the stations that they were assigned to. Yes up until 1980 from 1969 all three of Skokie’s stations had a manned Truck company assigned to them in addition to an Engine company. Skokie was running with 2 Straight Aerial Ladder Trucks and a 65 foot Pirsch Snorkel as a Truck company, as well. As there was a larger demand for EMS service they replaced the “East Side Truck” with an ALS Engine that had some extra Truck company equipment on it and because it was an ALS company it ran with 4 men instead of 3 when it was put in service.
SB was correct as that since Squad 29 runs as the only fire suppression and rescue company in town they should run with at least 4 men on it. The federally mandated 2 in /2 out rule also easily justifies having 4 men on Squad 29. As it is also Squad and not just another Engine company the 4th man comes in handy when working at extrication jobs and they do a good amount or running on I 94 (the Edens expressway).
I’m more curious at to when Squad 29’s crew runs as Truck 29 (on mutual aide runs) do they have another town’s Engine or Squad change quarters to Northfield Station 29 or do they just keep the station vacated and send the ” next station over” on Station 29’s runs.
Glenview’s New Station 13 really isn’t that far from Northfield’s Station 29.
As far as justifying 4 man suburban companies most people on this site know that 4 man companies are the ideal or at least the recommended amount of manpower per Engine and Truck company and we also know that in most cases it isn’t going to happen because most of the towns can’t afford to add the 4th man to each of the rigs.
That is a mistake that happened a long time ago. In most of the cases the “4th man” was gotten rid of in the early early to mid 1970’s or even in the late 1960’s and that was the time to act because given the shape of the economy and budget deficits very few if any local fire departments will be adding a 4th man to their companies.
Forget about justifying 4 man companies as they are justified running with them. How can you really justify running with 2 man Engines? I was shocked when I found out in 1989 that Highland Park was running with 2 man Engines. The only way that a 2 man Engine can run (if it is leading out a line and hooking up to a hydrant) is by using manpower from another company on the scene,
#11 by RPF on May 8, 2014 - 10:04 PM
Sounds like some politicians are finally using their heads. Increase the manpower where it’s needed. Obviously Northfield is a busy dept and the politicians realize it. Nice to see. If a suburb is getting a few fires a week they should have 4 guys on an engine.
#12 by RPF on May 8, 2014 - 1:29 PM
Sounds like that 4th person on the squad is a paramedic? To save money on paying a cross trained firefighter/paramedic. Smart I guess if that persons role is to be the 3rd person on ems calls. Why not put the three medics on the ambulance then? But wait a second, it’s not a Union department? How can Union members work there?
#13 by T. B. on May 8, 2014 - 6:48 AM
I may do that. Thanks for your previous post with that information.
#14 by T. B. on May 7, 2014 - 10:10 PM
Wow! That is some very interesting information. The 4th person on the suppression rig is in-case they need to send an extra person to the hospital? I wonder if any of the other departments in the area have tried to sell having a 4th person for that reason? Who wanted to staff a squad, truck and ambulance? Is the chief full-time or a POC?
#15 by Bill S on May 7, 2014 - 8:53 PM
Up until May 1, 2004, Northfield was a POC department with increasing response times. This became an unacceptable practice and the fire administration got approval for the 6 per shift paid on premise program. Having 4 on the fire rig allows for additional manpower to go with the ambulance to the hospital and still keeping a rig in service with 3. They would have liked to staff a Squad, Truck, and Ambulance however the original numbers were reduced to 6 per shift before the inception of the program.
#16 by T. B. on May 7, 2014 - 7:17 PM
Im not quite sure how Northfield operates these days but, I don’t think it is a Union shop. I’ve heard many of their people are Union employees from the city and surrounding suburbs. Do their Public Works employees still work on the department? What is the pay there?
#17 by RPF on May 7, 2014 - 5:33 PM
If the call volume and the incidence of structure fires there justifies a 4 man company, I’m very happy to see a rig that is properly staffed. Does Northfield have a strong Union that fought for their amazing manning?
#18 by The DH on May 7, 2014 - 2:09 PM
Four man engines aren’t unheard of, just few and far between in the suburbs. Most do run with 2 or 3. Northfield, Oak Lawn and Lombard are three that I know of running a four man engine.
#19 by Ace on May 7, 2014 - 1:12 PM
I was on Northfield back in the POC days, and we always responded to fires with a 6 man crew.
#20 by RPF on May 7, 2014 - 11:59 AM
Do they justify that amazing man power with a high call volume? High number of structure fires? That must be a typo. A 4 man company in the suburbs is unheard of. Or are they counting unpaid explorers or something?
#21 by T. B. on May 6, 2014 - 12:38 PM
Doesn’t their ambulance also respond with 2 Firefighter Paramedics on it? Again I’m not looking for an argument!
#22 by SB on May 6, 2014 - 11:52 AM
How about the fact that they have only 1 apparatus responding from within the still district. Most towns respond with multiple in-district/in-town apparatus, meaning they get more people on scene initially. In my opinion, Northfield needs 4 on the Squad as it is the only in-town suppression rig responding.
#23 by T. B. on May 6, 2014 - 10:53 AM
How does Northfield justify a 4 person company? I think it’s great but, many towns are running with only 2 or 3 per rig. It is a terrific looking Squad!
#24 by Ty on May 5, 2014 - 7:44 PM
They have 4 on the squad and 2 on the ambulance per shift. Truck 29 is a jump company from the squad. Engine 29 would be manned by callback personnel.
#25 by Bill S on May 5, 2014 - 5:34 PM
Transitioned from POC to part-time May 1, 2004. 6 members per shift, 2 on the ambulance and 4 on the squad. Squad is a jump company between the Squad and Truck. Truck generally responds on auto aid/mutual aid. It will run in town for a large scale incident with call back personnel. Engine 29 is a “reserve” for the Squad however it is due on certain box cards as is the truck and squad.
#26 by Bill Post on May 5, 2014 - 5:08 PM
It is a nice looking rig. I know that Squad 29 is the first rig out on alarms in Northfield but I was wondering what the company manning arrangement currently is? I know that they did have a paid on call type of arrangement for some of the village employees but I am not sure if they still run the fire department like that now?
Obviously they must have enough people on duty on to man the Squad and Probably the ambulance but I was wondering how do they man the Truck and do they ever actually man Engine 29 or is it manned by call back personnel?
When the Truck is called for is, it run as a jump company or do they actually have people assigned to it so they don’t have to take the Squad out of service? How many people are on duty per shift?
#27 by Crabby Milton on May 5, 2014 - 3:08 PM
Sharp looking pumper and nice background.