This from Adam Rothenberg:
We are up finishing our last day of final inspections in Sioux Falls. We got lucky and had a nice 45 degree day on Monday to fly the ladder before the snow and cold came in.Here are a couple of full body pictures.Adam RothenbergFirefighter/Paramedic
Palatine Fire
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Adam Rothenberg photo
Pingback: New tower ladder for Palatine (update) « chicagoareafire.com
#1 by Tim Danner on February 28, 2014 - 4:05 PM
put a black roof on that truck and send it to Chicago. The only thing the CFD wouldn’t like is the monitor, it looks electric.
#2 by ENG 17 on February 27, 2014 - 4:49 PM
New truck 85 is now in service.
#3 by JOHN TOBIN on December 9, 2013 - 11:56 PM
A pump on a truck is a great thing…..and you don’t need a large water tank and pre-connects to boot…..man power is the issue, which most department don’t have as jump companies abound!….Also if you hamstring your operation with high friction loss hose a pump is mandatory in my opinion!
#4 by Jim on December 8, 2013 - 8:55 PM
What are peoples opinion of running an engine and squad together? Like in Schaumburg or Carol Stream?
#5 by Bill Post on December 8, 2013 - 8:33 PM
Thanks for calling it to my attention Jim. I see that they have two paramedics off of a Med Unit to make up the balance of the crew. That would make for a 6 man crew if you include the men on the Squad.
On a previous post on the subject someone had commented on there being 3 men on the Tower however apparently was wrong.
Letting the Squad run as a Rescue/Engine would still help off set the loss of the pump and handlines off of the current Tower Ladder. As in many places Trucks and Rescue/Engines carry typical Squad ,extrication and Hazardous Materials equipment it makes alot of sense for Squad to run with a pump on it (as opposed to the Tower Ladder) as the Tower Ladder is heavier and bulkier apparatus.
#6 by Jim on December 8, 2013 - 6:07 PM
Bill,
According to Palatine’s website, it lists manning at 2 on the tower ladder and 2 on the squad.
#7 by Bill Post on December 8, 2013 - 4:15 PM
Another great example of local fire department that runs with an Squad/Pumper is Prospect Heights which they have gotten much good use from so running Palatines Squad 85 as a Pumper Squad following the Tower Ladder is quite possible as both companies are manned anyway.
When I had inadvertently mentioned Tower Ladder 18 in my previous post I was using Palatines old station numbers when Station 85 was station 18, station 82 was station 19 and Station 84 was station 17.
#8 by Bill Post on December 8, 2013 - 3:53 PM
On the subject of Trucks with or without pumps there quite a few variables and conditions ( economic , geographical and physical) that help to determine a fire departments choices and tactics in regards to whether or not to include a pump on it. Because of those variables there is obviously no one size fits all type of answer.
One of the several variables has to do with how far are the next due stations and companies and how busy are they?. Another variable how large is the district what are the physical characteristics of the district of the Truck or Quint company as well as how busy is the district?
The bottom line in recent years has indeed “been the bottom line” or to put it bluntly the “economics” or the economy which hasn’t been very good. That really has been the main reason behind much of the debate on why some fire departments have been choosing to eliminate some companies and go to “Quints” or in some of the cases that we are discussing , not purchase “Quints”.
On the subject of Palatine’s Tower Ladder (Truck company) it is in a good location (the approximate center of Town) where it can back up all of the current surrounding Engine companies. It is interesting that even Engine 83 runs with a Quint so in case Palatine gets shorthanded on Aerial Ladders Engine 83 can also do “Truck duty” as well. So Palatine hasn’t totally given up on using “Quints”. It is also very true that Palatine is a relatively well manned fire department when you consider that in effect Tower Ladder 85 is a two piece company as to my understanding the Squad runs or can run with the Tower Ladder with 3 men on the Truck and 2 men on the Squad.
Since Palatine runs with the Squad following the Truck anyway then I see no reason why Palatine can’t run with a Pumper/Squad which several Chicago area fire departments currently run with to begin with?
Schaumburg, Carol Stream and Skokie all run with Pumper/Squads. In reality Skokie actually runs with 2 Pumper/Squads as Squad 18 is a Rescue/Engine and Rescue 17 runs as the second due Engine in it’s district.
With more space available on the new soon to be put in service Tower Ladder 18 as there won’t be a pump ,booster tank or much hose on board (which would give it more cabinet space for traditional Truck and Squad type equipment). It would just be logical to run the Squad as a Pumper/Squad which even some “big city” fire departments are now running with such as New York ,Philadelphia and Baltimore just to name a few.
#9 by Drew Smith on December 8, 2013 - 1:04 AM
Joe, I strongly disagree with your point about pumps on truck. First, while I am not a fan of the quint concept in some cases having a quint is the only way to get staffed trucks. Again, not ideal as I see it but perhaps the necessary evil to be able to count on a staffed truck. Second, while a truck with a pump does not need to be a quint (you can have a pump on the aerial but not a water tank and/or a full hose bed) it can be useful. Back in the mid-1980s I attended an extra-alarm fire in Morton Grove in Dempster. There was significant fire and the IC wanted several elevated streams. The first and second truck began to set up their ladders pipes which required them to affix the master stream to the tip of the fly section, lay out hose to the turntable, and wait for an engine to supply that hose. While this was happening and the fire was growing, the last due truck arrived. It was a relatively new aerial ladder with a pump and a pre-piped waterway. This company (name withheld by me) forward laid LDH a few hundred feet, setup, and began to flow its elevated stream before the other two aerials which had already been on scene. It was quite impressive.
As for the truck starting the primary search ahead of attack hose lines operating, I would want to know that my company officer had determined the need was greater than the risk and the risk was managed as best possible. Just going in, regardless of the fire behavior, to start the search is not an acceptable answer. The same can be said for the truck going to the roof and opening up. When this is done the fire will grow. We now know this is so because far smarter people at UL and NIST have recorded data that shows this is what happens. Again, risk must be managed. I’d also like to see the suburban truck company that can get to the roof, open it up, and then go in and search. It’ll be one or the other but not both. Using VEIS when it is known that a victim exists or the probability of such is high is 100 percent acceptable provided fire conditions do not indicate survivability is improbable.
In the case of Palatine, two of the four outlying stations are about one mile from the HQ station with the aerial. The other two stations are about 1.5 and two miles away. While the possibility that multiple companies may be minutes away from the truck if it arrives first, the probability of this happening appears, at least to me, to be low.
#10 by Joe on December 7, 2013 - 1:29 PM
Pumps on trucks are more or less pointless in most situations, especially for a relatively well staffed and larger department like Palatine. The quint concept has watered down the traditional ideas of staffing and assignments at a fire. Many seem to think that if a truck is first in on a fire that the truck company members will simply stand there and watch the house burn while they wait for an engine company to arrive. The truck, at least with traditional assignments, has responsibilities when they arrive. Long story short, the truck can go to work doing what they’re supposed to do while they wait for the arrival of the still engine.
Personally, if either me or a member of my family were trapped in a burning building I certainly wouldn’t mind having a truck arrive first. We all know the best way to save a life is to put the fire out, but having the truck company ladder the roof, vent, and begin a primary search is a great start. These are the traditional roles of a truck company at a fire. You can do a lot of good work without a lead out. Furthermore, even true trucks without a tank and water will carry extinguishers or hand cans. You can put out a lot of fire with 5 gallons of water, and we all know how many fires we can put out with a hand can. A truck company can, more often than not, be just as effective at extinguishing a small fire as an engine company can. I think Palatine bought a great looking rig and I look foreword to seeing what they do with it.
#11 by Markus on December 6, 2013 - 4:03 PM
Wish it had a pump. Hopefully Engine 81 isn’t in the ambulance when my house catches fire. who hate for the truck and the squad to be first on scene and have no way to put out the fire.
#12 by Michael M on December 6, 2013 - 12:34 AM
Very nice truck. When will it be delivered to Palatine?
#13 by cmk420 on December 5, 2013 - 7:57 PM
The only people that would know how to answer the question, about future response plans for Palatine, would be Palatine itself.
#14 by Scott on December 5, 2013 - 6:42 PM
Nice. All it’s missing is the green light & an “888”… front of cab kinda naked!
#15 by Bob on December 5, 2013 - 6:11 PM
BADA BING, BADA BOOM
#16 by Tyler Tobolt on December 4, 2013 - 9:06 PM
Beautiful Rig..
#17 by Bill Post on December 4, 2013 - 9:04 PM
Those are great shots and it is a very nice looking rig.
The only thing is that since it is a straight Tower Ladder and not a Tower Ladder/Quint it will not be able to due any Engine or hose duty in it’s “first in” district which is basically downtown or Central Palatine so if there is a Rubbish fire or even a burning auto another fire house (Engine company) would have to be dispatched to the scene from a further location. At least by running a Tower Ladder/Quint the Tower Ladder was able to do extinguishment work on what normally would be one company alarm. Is the Squad also going to be “dry” or perhaps the new Squad will have a pump ,water and some hose aboard it?
Ideally speaking all stations would have an Engine company assigned however since a fifth Engine is presumably unaffordable ,which I am pretty sure is the main reason why the current (soon to be retired) Tower Ladder is a Quint.
#18 by Josh on December 4, 2013 - 8:44 PM
Would look cool black over red with CFD markings. Nice rig!
#19 by cmk420 on December 4, 2013 - 7:08 PM
Great looking truck–can’t wait to see it, and the new squad, around town in the new year.
#20 by 0.02 on December 4, 2013 - 6:37 PM
Looks very nice. Congrats