Martin Nowak found three new aerials at the SpartanERV site for the Chicago Fire Department, HERE, HERE, and HERE.
City of Chicago Fire Department, IL (211070-01)
Completion or Delivery Date: 2012-06-15
Series: Aerial
Model: 103′ Rearmount Ladder
Chassis: Spartan Gladiator
Dealer:Equipment Management Company (EMC)
Specifications: 103′ Rear Mount Platform, Tandem Axle, Aluminum Body
SpartanERV photo
Chicago Fire Department, IL (211100-01)
Completion or Delivery Date: 2012-06-15
Series: Aerial
Model: 103′ Rearmount Ladder
Chassis: Spartan Gladiator
Dealer: Equipment Management Company (EMC)
Specifications: Aluminum Body, Roll-Up Doors
SpartanERV photo
City of Chicago Fire Department, IL (211102-01)
Completion or Delivery Date: 2012-06-15
Series: Aerial
Model: 103′ Rearmount Ladder
Chassis: Spartan Gladiator
Dealer: Equipment Management Company (EMC)
Specifications: 103′ RearMount Platform, Aluminum Body, Roll-Up Doors
SpartanERV photo
#1 by chris on September 4, 2012 - 11:17 PM
will there no longer be a tower or will the switch take place when the city gets new towers
#2 by danny on September 4, 2012 - 11:05 PM
yeah when the money is there the old tl 34 pierce will replace the old seagrave ladder that became the lumber truck 5-2-2 for collapse rescue but i dont think it will fit where it is currently stationed. last i heard 5-2-2 was stationed at e 14 on chicago. so i guess maybe they will pick another close by house or store it at SOC
#3 by Breyden Wyman on September 4, 2012 - 10:03 PM
Nope tower ladder 34 is not getting their pierce back with a new ladder, its gonna be used for a collapse rescue truck instead. but my dads tower ladder tower 10 will be given to tower 34. tower ladder 10 is currently running under a 2002 pierce dash 100ft aerial platform, it is still in good shape but it has been in the shops alot because pierce rigs are not made to go on alot of runs. back in the day when fires burned all the time, that pierce was out the door 17 times a shift in the old cabrini green neighborhood
#4 by Dan on September 4, 2012 - 7:06 PM
How is it that truck 34 was wrecked? Is the truck a total loss? I have seen it sitting over at the repair yard for quite some time now without the aerial. Isn’t it possible to put a new aerial device on the truck? I have seen talk too of making it into a new collapse rescue truck. If the truck was so badly damaged, how is this possible?
#5 by Breyden Wyman on September 4, 2012 - 6:41 PM
ya from what i herd tower 34 hit a bridge and an underpass
#6 by danny on September 4, 2012 - 1:57 AM
tower 34 to my knowledge has not got into an accident at quarters, i know they wrecked the pierce by hitting a bridge
#7 by Bill Friedrich on September 3, 2012 - 7:21 PM
I heard a non confirmed rumor today the two remaining ladders will be going to Truck 11 and Truck 28. The third went to the Academy.
#8 by Bill Post on September 3, 2012 - 1:55 PM
Dennis you had mentioned that the Rosenbauer Platforms would use the “same concept for the basket as they do for the Snozzle”. What do you mean, as the Snozzle is built on a boom without a basket. Are you saying that booms that they would build for the new Snorkel Squads be built without a basket?
#9 by Bill Post on September 3, 2012 - 1:22 PM
Fleet guy, I was curious about the accidents that Tower Ladder 34 has been getting into? What do the accidents have to do with their current quarters? Have the accidents been happening while backing into or leaving quarters?
The Tower Ladder has been at Engine 72 since 1988 when Truck 34 became Tower Ladder 34. I take it that the accidents have only happened over the last couple of years. It just appears that relocating a tower ladder because of a few accidents doesn’t seem to make sense unless the accidents actually happened because of their quarters.
Rather than relocating Tower 34 to Engine 46 it would make more sense to just put another tower ladder in service to cover the far south side. It would actually make more sense to put a tower ladder in service at Truck 40, as now that they are in a new station there would be room for a tower ladder. Truck 40’s location would better cover the far south side such as the 22nd and 21st battalions which are a pretty far distance from the nearest tower ladder. Squad 5 also has a long distance to travel to get to those battalions.
#10 by Bill Post on August 31, 2012 - 1:26 AM
Dennis in the post where you had stated that “we have changed there before”, meaning Engine 46 and Truck 17’s quarters, were you riding on Tower Ladder 37 that day as you were talking about Tower Ladders fitting into Truck 17’s station?
That’s a good point that you made about Engine 50 getting an older 1995 model Spartan Luverne rig that replaced a newer 1998 HME Luverne rig. Engine 50’s 1995 rig had been originally assigned to Engine 89 which was one of the slower (in terms of runs) companies in the city, so the rig must have still been in pretty good shape. The mileage on the rigs as well as the overall condition of the unit is probably also considered as a factor in deciding which rigs get replaced and which get reassigned, as well as the age factor.
In the case of replacing Truck 42’s 2002 Pierce when there were still older 2000 model E/One Trucks in service, I think that they were probably replaced because they needed a Pierce Truck to be used as a spare for the ALS Trucks. However, that still doesn’t explain why the didn’t replace Truck 47 or Truck 52’s rig instead as they are the two oldest Pierce trucks. Could it be that Truck 42’s Pierce was due for some “shop work” so they figured they would just give Truck 42 a new rig instead?
#11 by Breyden Wyman on August 30, 2012 - 8:00 PM
what do you mean by changing
#12 by Shaan smith on August 30, 2012 - 5:55 PM
The Chicago fire department is changing by getting new rescue squads this month and new tower ladders
#13 by Dennis on August 28, 2012 - 7:28 PM
Fmp571 which rig are you speaking of?.Engine or Truck?
#14 by FPM571 on August 28, 2012 - 6:45 PM
What happened to the old academy rig. The new one is in service and the old one was a 2000? It was in good shape and had low miles
#15 by Dennis on August 28, 2012 - 5:13 PM
Oh and one more thing … the idea that fleet is replacing by age doesn’t make sense … why then did they replace Trk 42’s 2002 pierce when there were older rigs (2000 E-Ones) still on the street in front line service.
They don’t replace engines based on age either … one example is Engine 50 who had a 1999 HME/Luverne then got a 1995 Spartan/Luverne (I know when they became ALS they needed the extra room) but then give Engine 15 a brand new rig.
#16 by Dennis on August 28, 2012 - 5:04 PM
Rosenbauer will use the same concept for the basket as they do for their snozzle. Pierce never submitted a bid for either building new or rebuilding the squads. Also, it would be two years to get them delivered. A lot has changed since the days of old.
As far as a tower fitting in Engine 46’s house … which tower ladder moves there would depend on what fits inside, but based on the fact that there is a basement, the weight and not just the height of the tower combined would prevent it from happening. We have changed there before and were too heavy and too tall.
#17 by fleet guy on August 28, 2012 - 8:56 AM
Yes new bids go out this month for new tower ladders, however it will be at least two years before they hit the streets from design to production etc. The fleet has been replacing apparatus by the age so tower 34 would be first followed by 39,37 & 21 who are still running mid 1996 LTIs. There is still talk about moving a few tower ladders around mainly 34 because of the accidents they keep getting into and truck 17 is right down the street and a tower ladder does fit in that firehouse. Also fleet has been talking with Pierce to come up with a snorkel replacement by taking the snorkel parts of the 2000 rigs and working them into a pierce rescue unit.
#18 by Jacob on August 28, 2012 - 12:18 AM
would both rigs be on the commander chassis? what would they use for the snorkel part?
#19 by Dennis on August 27, 2012 - 8:59 PM
@Breyden, Bids for new tower ladders were to go out this month. As far as Tower 10 going to Tower 34, I would say yea, but things change and sometimes things don’t always make sense.
Bids were opened in June for the new 3 sets of squads (snorkel and box rig). The only bidder was Rosenbauer. The rigs would be on their Commander chassis.
The 3 new Crimson aerials are to be assigned to Truck 11, 28 (replacing 2000 E-0nes) and one to the Quinn Fire Academy (replacing the 1985 Pirsch)
#20 by Breyden Wyman on August 27, 2012 - 7:49 PM
Hey guys does anyone know when the city is getting new tower ladders my dad is on tower 10 witch is a 2002 pierce dash and it might be going to tower 34
#21 by Ryan on July 18, 2012 - 11:56 AM
The two trucks with white ladders are Trucks 47 & 52. They are medium duty ladders and have only rear outriggers. Can’t remember why they came with white ladders. Maybe changed the spec after these two were in production?
#22 by scott on July 17, 2012 - 4:59 PM
In regards to the ladder length & medium/heavy duty I believe the 1st two Pierce aerials that the city first received many years ago with the white ladders are heavy duty. I believe Truck 47 is one of them, the other is on the south side. That is why the aerials where white to designate heavy duty (and I believe they have 2 sets of outriggers).
Also, all Pierce heavy duty 100′ aerials require 2 sets of jacks (2 rear, 2 mid).
Finally, I had been told the other reason for the Crimson aerials is they are heavy duty aerials, and Crimson was able to deliver such with the mid mount jack being of a different design therefore enabling the apparatus to be setup in tighter spots. The rear is the traditional outrigger, while the mid (front) is an E-One/Seagrave design type that is an “X” type jack.
Any list comment members CFD Truckies to provide further comment/clarification?
Thanks!
#23 by Brian on July 15, 2012 - 6:44 PM
I’ve heard mid-September for the digital conversion
#24 by mike on July 15, 2012 - 5:34 PM
the squads will come when they get here. Still need to figure out the snorkle issue and the digital radio. Hopefully never. All the problems everyone has with their digital cell phone is the same issues that are gonna happen with the radios.
#25 by Bill Post on July 15, 2012 - 8:53 AM
Jeff, as far a new squads go, the city had advertised for bids not more then 2 to 3 months ago and the deadline was somewhat over a month ago. I don’t know and haven’t heard of the results, but hopefully something will come of it in the not to distant future.
As for the conversion over to the digital frequencies for the fire companies, I just heard that the target date is Sunday, September 16th (so far).
They are to begin training on the digital radios on July 16th so it should be another 2 months before they are officially in use. On this issue my source is pretty good. Things can still change however.
#26 by Jeff on July 14, 2012 - 6:44 PM
Two questions-
1) Is there any word on the new squads?
2) How about the digital radio system, when will it happen?
Thanks to all who answer.
#27 by mike on July 14, 2012 - 3:46 PM
up until early 2000s you could get a single-axle aerial ladder, just a ladder, not a tower. Most of the ladders built then were aluminum, which meant the weight was less, and they had a lighter tip, which load meant less metal. Now with ladders being rated to 500 or even 750lbs, that requires more mass on the ladder for the safety ratio, which means added weight. Along with most ladders now having pumps and tanks on them equaling even more weight. Hence the only way to make up for the added weight is to add an extra set of tires on the back. Having driven both single and tandem axle ladders. I prefer the single axle because they are easier to maneuver. My favorite rig was a 1980s era E-One 110’on a single axle. It drove like an engine and could be put anywhere with the scissor jacks.
#28 by Rich Rehner on July 14, 2012 - 1:15 PM
Forgot to mention one of the main points of the new LED Vector bars. Guys from the shops tell me that any required or routine maintenance is much easier and faster on the LED Vector bars then on the straight bars. It’s a learning process by discovery.
#29 by Rich Rehner on July 14, 2012 - 1:05 PM
@ Mike… The Vector light bars ARE LED, it’s the same design only replaced with the new LED configuration. Thought process was they show up better during the day then the conventional straight LED light bars.
#30 by Ryan Wyckoff on July 14, 2012 - 10:36 AM
The single rear axle issue is because of the vehicle weight. Any aerial ladder longer than 78ft. is on a tandem rear axle. No manufacturer is building aerial ladders on single axles unless under 78ft.
#31 by Dennis on July 13, 2012 - 7:47 PM
@Josh– We have more than one spare tower ladder. At least 2 1985 E-Ones, and 1 1988 E-One, Could be more but I havent seen them. Those are just the ones I have seen.
#32 by chris on July 13, 2012 - 3:59 PM
anybody know why all the new ford buggys came with standard led light bars but batt 3 has a vecter led light bar thanks
#33 by DMc77 on July 13, 2012 - 2:33 PM
There are (or were) two versions of the Vector LED warning lights. The older version (such as on Cicero’s apparatus) featured fixed LEDs that point in different directions. The newer version (seen on recently delivered FDNY apparatus) have LEDs mounted beneath a rotating reflector. At FDIC this year, FedSig had a version that had multi-color LEDs that were user changeable, so you could mix and match colors “on the fly”. Not sure if that feature made it into the production version. Either way, the newer rotating reflector/LED Vectors are extremely bright.
#34 by josh boyajian on July 13, 2012 - 12:23 PM
On our new engine in Stickney, we have new LED vector Light bars. Cicero also has LED vector light bars on their tiller and engine
#35 by Joe on July 13, 2012 - 7:06 AM
@Mike:
The new vector light bars have LEDs in them, not incandescent rotating lights as they were before. Many new CFD rigs as well as rigs from the suburbs have this style. If you take a look at the Federal Signal website it doesn’t appear that they offer the vector light bars with incandescent bulbs anymore.
#36 by Bill Post on July 13, 2012 - 1:31 AM
Mike while I can’t answer any questions on the light bars, the single axle rear mounted aerials will become obsolete. Other cities like New York, Dallas, Boston, Houston etc have gone to or are going to tandem rear axle chassis for their 100-foot or higher aerial ladders. It may be part of a weight distribution and safety issue.
#37 by Bill Post on July 13, 2012 - 1:04 AM
The City of Chicago’s Department of Procurement Services, in their second quarter buying plan which was released in April, does have on their proposed purchasing list “Fire Tower Ladders.” It doesn’t indicate how many, and it does list the 3rd quarter of 2012 as when they anticipate putting out an ad for these bids.
The current contract for the Spartan/Erv (formerly Crimson) aerial ladders is supposed to be for 5 years and for as many as thirty trucks, but it looks to me like tower ladders are not part of the contract.
Even though the City of Chicago has a contract with Spartan/Erv for both engine and truck apparatus, the contracts had been awarded separately as bids were taken on two different types of apparatus.
There is an unusual twist to this however. The contract for new engines was awarded to Spartan/ERV fairly quickly and uneventfully. I understand that Pierce also had bid on the new engine contract.
When it came to bids for new aerial apparatus, the story was just the opposite. Bids had been solicited, and to my understanding at least two companies had submitted proposals however all of the bids were rejected. That was in 2008.
The Department of Fleet Management had then written up new specifications for trucks and solicited bids. Once again, the bids that were submitted were rejected.
A third solicitation for bids was put out. E/One, Pierce, Crimson, and Ferrara had submitted bids on this solicitation. It appeared like it was going to E/One as they were the lowest bidder, however that too had fallen through.
They may have even solicited a fourth round of bids but either way (whether it took three or four separate rounds of bids) it was over a year after a contract was awarded for new engines that a contract was finally awarded for new aerial apparatus.
#38 by Brian on July 12, 2012 - 11:47 PM
FDNY has a contract with Ferrara for their aerials, I wonder if they would get in the mix come new contract time
#39 by mike McAuliffe on July 12, 2012 - 11:23 PM
Does anyone know why the CFD is going back to using vector light bars and not LED light bars? Is it that they prefer the vectors? Is Fleet Management recycling the old vector lights or does the manufacturer install them? Just curious.
Another question, are single axle rear mounts, such as Trucks 30 and 24, going to be completely obsolete?
#40 by Andy on July 12, 2012 - 10:53 PM
Sebastian,
Any further information on the issues CFD might be having with the new trucks? If you have ever been involved with the purchasing of a piece of fire apparatus you would know that most new vehicles do have various issues that arise. Mostly they are minor nuisance items. Getting the bugs worked out on a new rig can take awhile. While some brands may fair better than others you will be hard pressed to find a new rig that doesn’t have a few things that need to be tweaked or replaced. When CFD gets around to buying new towers or replacements for the squad rigs their overrall experience with Spartan/Crimson will certainly be taken into account.
#41 by Bill Post on July 12, 2012 - 9:53 PM
Josh the Spartan/Erv – Crimson ladders are officially listed as 103 feet while all but one of the Pierces are 100 feet. The only Chicago Pierce straight aerial that is taller is Aerial Tower 1 (Truck 1) which is 105 feet and is a Pierce heavy-duty aerial ladder. All of the other Pierce straight aerial ladders are medium-duty ladders and are about 5 feet shorter then the heavy-duty ladder.
#42 by josh boyajian on July 12, 2012 - 8:13 PM
Are the new ladders bigger in length than the pierces? They look big
#43 by Sebastian on July 12, 2012 - 7:46 PM
I understand that they grant the contract to the lowest bidder but if i am not mistaken aren’t they having issues with the current crimsons and spartan erv???
#44 by Brian on July 12, 2012 - 3:13 PM
@Sebastian, they go out to bid and the former Crimson was awarded the contract for engines and aerials. I believe it was a multi-year contract
#45 by Sebastian on July 12, 2012 - 11:23 AM
why did CFD get away from the pierce trucks??? do they not like them or do they have an exclusive contract with Spartin ERV???
#46 by chris on July 12, 2012 - 10:41 AM
they have 3 towers at ohare 07 front line and 96/88 spares
#47 by Bill Post on July 12, 2012 - 2:51 AM
Josh, as far as who will be getting these latest Spartan/Erv aerial ladders, I really don’t know at the moment. I can tell you who the most likely candidates for getting them would be, but even that speculation would only be just that, because the final decision as to rig assignments can contain unanticipated surprises.
For example, two of the last three trucks that were replaced by the new Spartan/Erv rigs were 2000 model E/Ones (Trucks 13 and 50), which logically was expected based on the age of their former apparatus. However, the third assignment was to Truck 42 which was a newer model 2002 Pierce truck. This was like a “wrench in the soup,” as logically speaking even if a Pierce truck was to have been replaced, then why wasn’t it Truck 47 or 52? These were the first two Chicago prototype Pierce trucks that were 2000 models and put in service earlier than Truck 42’s old rig. Truck 42 wasn’t even an ALS (paramedic) truck company. Ultimately Truck 42’s Pierce was probably made into a spare rig so the department would have one that could be used for the 11 ALS truck companies.
That said, the trucks that would normally be the next ones to be replaced are Trucks 28, 8, 11, 30, 49, 40, and 24 (not necessarily in that order) if you were to base the decision strictly on the age of the units. Basing it on who the busiest of those companies are I would say that Truck 30, 49, and perhaps 24 would or should be on the top of that list. Trucks 28, 8, and 40 are all hand-me-down rigs who had their newer Pierce trucks given to companies that had become ALS trucks a few years ago. The Pierce trucks were equipped with an ALS gear compartment which the 2000 E/Ones didn’t have. Truck 28’s rig was originally assigned to Truck 55, Truck 8’s to Truck 60, and Truck 40 to Truck 45. As all of these were slower companies, the rigs that had been reassigned a few years ago probably have the least mileage and wear and tear on them. So based on that, the three rigs that I just mentioned should probably be the last to be replaced.
This is pure speculation and ultimately the Department of Fleet Management and the department ‘brass’ will decide which new truck is going where.
#48 by Dan on July 11, 2012 - 8:07 PM
Is the tower that has been down at the academy oos? It has been there a couple weeks, I think.
#49 by Martin on July 11, 2012 - 11:36 AM
Josh, they are replacing Tower 10, the older unit, their current pierce will go to tower 34 I think, I need to double check that. But i know there are plans for a new tower. As for these units, I’m unsure but. I hope trucks 57 and 58 will be replaced soon.
#50 by josh boyajian on July 10, 2012 - 11:04 PM
Hey Martin or Bill, do you guys know where these trucks will be assigned? Hopefully there is a plan for Towers! Especially since there is only one reserve tower ladder. I’m surprised the city hasn’t bought a used tower ladder from somewhere and painted it black over red and used it as a reserve. Just was wondering