New truck for Waukegan (more) « Page 1

New truck for Waukegan (more)

updated photos of the 95′ Seagrave Aerialscope on a Marauder chassis for Waukegan that appears to be completed

Waukegan FD photo

Tags: chicagoareafire.com, new truck for Waukegan FD, Seagrave 95' Aerialscope, Waukegan FD buys Seagrave Aerialscope, Waukegan FD Truck 1, Waukegan Fire Department

This entry was posted on June 19, 2020, 8:00 AM and is filed under Fire Department News, Fire truck being built. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

20 Comments (and one trackback)

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#1 by JOHN TOBIN on July 3, 2020 - 1:40 PM

I stand corrected. Stick foot in mouth, lol….Seagrave does offer a pump and small water tank….in the past, I’d only seen a few on Aluminum cabs. Pump away!
#2 by Big Moe on June 25, 2020 - 3:15 PM

The coolest truck on the north shore for sure!
#3 by JOHN TOBIN on June 24, 2020 - 12:15 PM

Waukegan will have a bit of a learning curve, I guess one can say, getting used to LDH. I just hope they did all their research and will purchase the correct 5″ with the proper pressure rating. There are a few departments out there that have gone to fabric hose due to the fact the rubber hose just doesn’t hold up that well. The LDH concept in Elgin still rocks me as for the 30+ years I was there, we always got the job done with 3″. In saying that the wiz kids, without any line personnel’s input decided to go with, 4″ and to add insult to injury 4″ was provided for all the main suctions, for the fleet of 2000 GPM two stage pumps, lol … also they were so fixated to go to LDH, they bought the cheapest crap hose with 200PSI test pressure. I finally put the powers to be on written notice that the way the 4″ was being utilized (not only for supply) it was routinely being over pressurized by 20% or more. Even though I clearly showed that 4″ had almost triple the friction loss of 5″ flowing 1000 GPM, it was a classic example of do not confuse me with the facts. My only victory and a small one at that, was the chief at that time replaced the entire inventory of the lower rated hose, some of it had not even seen a fire, or even laid on the street … but still 4″, lol. To add insult to injury, the wiz kids could find no one interested in the almost brand new hose and it sat … the station Capt at the time called me, chuckled and said John could you find a home for this? It is now spread (I believe I hauled 6’000 feet of it) around the great North woods of Wisconsin … to grateful departments, where it will be used as supply only hose …. I guess what I’m saying after all this banter, again … I hope WFD did their research … I’m sure they did. 🙂
#4 by JOHN TOBIN on June 24, 2020 - 11:29 AM

The Aerialscope is the ultimate stairway to heaven….used for years in the harshest conditions. The main drawback is the lack of a pump and water tank capabilities, due to the weight on the front axle. Some Scope Quints have been built with Aluminum cabs (mostly re-chassis) but like any quint, it makes for a very complicated, heavy, complex machine. Other than Chicago, everyone it seems demands a Quint of course for varying reasons.
#5 by Jim on June 24, 2020 - 7:30 AM

Mike,
Why the switch to 5” hose from 3”? Dennis LeGear has some great information about hose diameters and flow. I always thought it was great that Waukegan didn’t but into the hype of 5”. Have you guys had problems at fires with not enough water?
#6 by Mike on June 22, 2020 - 10:31 PM

MABAS 21,

The crash truck has been delayed until at least January 2021 due to supply chain issues at Rosenbauer.
#7 by MABAS 21 on June 21, 2020 - 8:11 PM

What is the status of the Rosenbauer Panther ARFF being constructed for Waukegan?
#8 by Mike on June 21, 2020 - 1:23 PM

Bill,

Engine 4 on the north side of town has a full complement of E-Draulic extrication equipment including spreader, cutter, and rams. It also has cribbing and struts for stabilization. If additional is needed, our squad is still equipped with an extensive complement of hydraulic extrication equipment, cribbing and other items typically used with extrication. That vehicle is no longer staffed unless staffing allows and one of the companies from the downtown station will move to the squad if needed.
#9 by Bill Post on June 21, 2020 - 10:29 AM

Mike thanks for the information.

What companies do the extrication work as you said the Pierce is not equipped for that? Compartment space on your new truck was a major requirement as you mentioned the equipment from the former squad will be on the truck. In effect in will be a truck/rescue company. I assume the truck will have the airbags as well.

It would be a good idea if Chicago started putting airbags on some trucks since they must wait for a squad if airbags are needed.
#10 by Mike on June 21, 2020 - 7:36 AM

Bill,

Two main reasons for switching to a platform right now:

1) We are due for a ladder truck since our Pierce is 13 years old. The miles and wear and tear are adding up. When the Pierce was purchased in ‘07, the criteria given by administration was specific. The rig had to be a quint since it was going to be in its own still district, and the budget was pretty modest for the time. A platform was briefly looked at back then, but was several hundred-thousand dollars over what we had to spend. It simply was not an option. In the last few years, the city administration has recognized the need for capitol improvements. The city went 11 years without purchasing a fire engine. We were fortunate to receive a grant for one of the engines we recently purchased, and bond sales by the city funded the purchase of the other engines as well as this truck, which came in just over $1.3 million. This additional funding the city has committed to allowed us to expand our capabilities.

2) Our current administration has given the apparatus specification committee the latitude to make this operational change. This will be a significant change in our operations and capabilities on the fireground. Training will be conducted for significant period of time with outside instructors all ready in place who have used these apparatus for decades. The supply liners in the hose beds will also be changing from 3-inch to 5-inch as budget allows. This will benefit not only master stream operations with the new truck, but all firefighting operations. Another addition to this truck will be a full complement of Hurst E-Draulic extrication equipment. The current truck was not outfitted for extrication equipment.

There hasn’t been any issue where a platform was desperately needed, but simply the ability to upgrade to a platform has presented itself, and we took it. Our equipment has always been more functional than fancy, and the Aerialscope is the epitome of that concept.

One additional item that was also mentioned as an issue with Aerialscopes is its massive jack spread which was accurately described as close to 20 ft. That certainly can be an issue operating on narrow streets. However, depending on truck placement, operations will likely take place on one side of the apparatus, so short-jacking or more appropriately, leaving the tormentor up on the side not being operated on would reduce that footprint to around 14 ft and only require spotting for one outrigger or tormentor. The remainder of the jacks on the Aerialscope do not protrude outside the chassis. As long as personnel are familiar with the capabilities of the apparatus, most of those challenges can be overcome.
#11 by Bill on June 21, 2020 - 12:15 AM

why a platform now?
#12 by Craig Mack on June 20, 2020 - 2:39 PM

Beautiful rig! Too bad they spent all that money just to have 1990’s era clipart font on it! Lol
#13 by Mike on June 20, 2020 - 9:22 AM

I can fill in some of the questions regarding the scope and current truck. The Pierce is an 07 and will be likely be in reserve status upon the scope going into service. The 95 Seagrave truck may also be kept for training down the road. No talk or discussion on Pierce going back to Station 4 where it was in service for over a decade. There were several reasons to go with an aerialscope. Because of the truck being a second staffed suppression rig out of the main station, a pump and tank were ruled out in favor of additional equipment storage. Also, as stated in previous threads, FDNY have been running Aerialscopes for several decades. The cost of any trucks with platforms is starting around 1.2 million. Many departments on the East Coast have refurbished these units several times saving significant money as opposed to buying an entirely new truck. Another factor was the size of the fire station the truck will be located. Great Lakes has a rear mount pierce platform that does not fit in Waukegan station 1, which essentially rules out any rear-mount platform by any manufacturer. Pierce’s new mid-mount was looked at but lacked compartment space, and therefore was dismissed as an option. Three Seagrave engines have been purchased in the last few years and have been an outstanding addition to the fleet. In addition, the three reserve apparatus (2 engines and 1 truck) are all ‘95 Seagraves. They have served us well.
#14 by BMurphy on June 20, 2020 - 12:20 AM

Back in the 70’s Waukegan was running both an 85’ tillered mid-50’s Seagrave and a 75’ Ward LaFrance/Hi-Ranger snorkel (both as straight truck companies with no pumps) from the old downtown station as well as a small mid-mount 65’ (?) truck from the Lewis Ave station.
#15 by Jim S on June 19, 2020 - 8:23 PM

The main draw backs of an Aerialscope are the cost $1.2 million and the outrigger spread of almost 20 feet (narrow streets can be difficult to set up)

Aside from that, The positives are:
1. Lots of compartments for storage of tools and equipment
2. Can carry a lot of ground ladders (depends on Spec)
3. The boom is like a crane and can lift 5000 lbs
4. Can flow up to 2000 GPM with the right size piping
5. Payload of 1000 pounds at any elevation/extension while flowing 1000 GPM
#16 by Mike Mc on June 19, 2020 - 7:44 PM

Any chance the current truck 1 will become quint 4?
#17 by Bill Post on June 19, 2020 - 7:36 PM

So Waukegan is still a Seagrave town. It will be interesting to see the New York style Aerialscope in operation. I have to hand it to their management who is willing to purchase a 95-foot Aerialscope.

The New York City Fire Department has been using Aerialscopes since 1964, long before Seagrave purchased the brand. Of 143 ladder companies, 61 are Aerialscopes and the rest are a combination of rear mounted and tillered straight ladders. Only 15 of the Aerialscopes are 95 footers. New York has space and weight concerns in many of their houses so most of their Aerialscopes are 75 footers. Philadelphia has four 75-foot Aerialscopes on order after not using them since the late 1980s. Washington DC has a 95 footer. Chicago never used them but Milwaukee had a 75-foot model during the 1970s. While they aren’t very common they have certainly proved themselves in New York City.
#18 by bill on June 19, 2020 - 2:40 PM

Are they keeping the pierce as a reserve or are they getting rid of it.
#19 by rj on June 19, 2020 - 11:58 AM

Odd choice, so many drawbacks to an aerialscope, anyone from WAUK on here that knows the logic behind the choice?
#20 by MABAS 21 on June 19, 2020 - 11:37 AM

This has got to be the first ever Aerialscope in Illinois. Awesome!