What’s new … CFD « chicagoareafire.com

What’s new … CFD

This from Eric Haak:

The units appear to be finished and awaiting their markings. Both units are shown here with the best angle I could get.

Eric Haak photo

The most recent post on the topic is HERE.

Tags: CFD rebuilds turret wagons, Chicago deluge wagons get new chassis, Chicago FD Deluge Wagon, Chicago Fire Department deluge wagon 6-7-3, Chicago Fire Department deluge wagon 6-7-6, Eric Haak

This entry was posted on July 30, 2013, 1:00 PM and is filed under Fire Service News. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

20 Comments

#1 by Mike Mc on August 3, 2013 - 10:07 PM

Mike Lopina: Thanks for the information. On the subject of chiefs asking for equipment out of service, arguably one of the most famous incidents was the 1967 McCormick Place fire when Chief Fire Marshall Curtis Volkamer asked the main fire alarm office to make sure that high pressure wagons, with their large diameter house, were ready for the fireboats when they pulled in. The high pressure wagons were all out of service. I was told that the fire alarm office called the shops to see if there were any high pressure wagons in storage. When the shops said no, the fire alarm office felt that they did all they could do and ignored the request.

I was also told that Fire Commissioner William Blair, at the Union Station fire in the early 1980’s, ordered a hose wagon to take a hydrant. They had to gently explain to the Commissioner that it was a hose wagon with no pumping capability. Unfortunately, this did not improve Blair’s image with the rank and file – or anyone below the rank of first assistant fire commissioner (who was a police officer by the way) for that matter. In his defense, the Ford C-cab hose wagon could resemble an engine at first glance. Ford C-cab engines were somewhat rare on the west coast where Blair was from. Although, his old department, LACity FD, had a small number.

People under pressure will sometimes make mistakes that sometimes seem silly to others. Good leaders quickly realize their error and move on with their decision making. A great leader can even make light of it and ease the tension.
#2 by rja on August 1, 2013 - 4:57 PM

Hey NJ, The cost of a new chassis for 671 would be (of course make and model come into play) between $55,000 to $75,000 versus $30,000 to $40,000 says it all. Now I wouldn’t bet the bank on it, but I would venture to guess by adding one or two more would pretty well cover the city. But again who knows NJ, they might not even buy one more small one. And as I made reference earlier in a post, the city is buying a lot of equipment this year and I believe “even though long overdue” tower ladders were supposed to be put out for bid and money was supposed to be put into the 2013 budget for them……I’d say that’s gonna be put on hold too.
#3 by NJ on August 1, 2013 - 11:46 AM

I wonder how much more a new chassis for 671 would cost vs a new small deluge unit which would presumable need new guns and everything. Would the (modest?) greater expense be worth it for the far greater capabilities a new 671 would provide? I also wonder if there really is a need for a third small deluge unit and what the thinking is behind it.
#4 by rja on August 1, 2013 - 10:47 AM

Amen to that brother.
#5 by NJ on August 1, 2013 - 8:24 AM

At least by holding onto it they are hedging their bets. Sitting there is can still be used and can still be rechassied in the future. Best choice under the circumstances I guess.

Thanks for the info.
#6 by Rja566 on July 31, 2013 - 7:50 PM

It would be really cool to see 671 get remounted. Don’t hold your breaths Laddy’s. It AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. Reason #1 they are not going to spend at least $55,000.00 on a new chassis.#2 They are not going to go hunting for a used on either. My source “(who happens to work at spo wharehouse says it will stay there for now and they will see how much more it is needed. I can tell you this, scuttle butt has it that a third small deluge is being looked into and that is why the held onto the old gun’s and plumbing for future reference. They didn’t reuse chrome guns because of age and didn’t get new ones cause of price. And to note with all these new rigs coming in plus squads and ambo’s 671 will not be remounted. Really wish they would. BRING BACK BIG JOHN!
#7 by Mike Lopina on July 31, 2013 - 1:55 PM

@ Mike Mc- Actually, FDNY is/was a high volume system meant to increase water capacity to a certain area when needed for large fires. Kind of the same but different than CFD. CFD did try to copy the FDNY system in the late 70’s/eraly 80’s with the high volume/high pressure pumpers (2000gpm) and hose wagon (6-1-1) by making a specific “water task force”. The thought was that at a large fire the IC could call for one or several HV/HP pumpers and the hose wagon to increase water supply. It was officially off the books in the early 80’s as a stand alone asset but the 2000gpm pumpers remained until the late 90’s and, of course, the CFD now has 2 hose wagons. I remember a lumber yard fire in 1989 Northwest Hwy & Devon where the IC asked for “the water task force” which was at that time no longer in service. The Main FAO knew well enough that he wanted HP/HV pumpers so they sent Eng 14 & 5, I think. Mr Reddick may be able to look up the rundown on that one and clarify.

On a side note related to older chiefs asking for things no longer around, about 15 years ago they had a tar kettle going on the far southeast side. The chief asked for a dry chem or cardox unit to which the office responded “Neither of those are in service. Would you like the foam task force?” and the (at the time) spare crash rig (6-5-10) was sent from Eng 34’s quarters. Several years after that the city acquired the new dry chem rigs (6-2-4 & 6-2-5). The old dry chem rig had been scrapped in the late 80’s/early 90’s which is why it was not around for the tar kettle fire. And the cardox units had been scrapped many years before but I think that was just a matter of semantics and that he meant a crash rig.

As for speculating and offering opinions, it is my opinion that the discussions and history offered is top notch for the most part. Yeah, everyone can Monday morning QB the CFD and every other department on here but that it’s harmless. Or should be. Nobody should lose sleep over what departments do nor should anyone lose sleep over what people post. But somebody offering an opinion on operations may provide another person with an idea on what to do or what not to do at their own department. Tally Ho.
#8 by Drew G. on July 31, 2013 - 1:16 PM

I believe the special ops warehouse is staffed 24/7, not sure how many on shift there though.
#9 by FFEMT on July 31, 2013 - 12:02 PM

I’m so glad everyone knows what Chicago should do better than they do….just saying. It’s one thing to speculate, but it’s a very different animal altogether to tell them what and how they should do things. It’s really rather unprofessional, actually.
#10 by NJ on July 31, 2013 - 11:34 AM

It’s also quite interesting (and telling?) that they pulled both turret wagons OOS at the same time. You’d think they’d do them one at a time.
#11 by NJ on July 31, 2013 - 11:31 AM

Keeping 671 at Special Ops so they can “use it as needed” makes a mockery out of putting it OOS. Sitting at 23’s house it was also only used as needed. As is the Reserve Snorkel etc. They should keep it, and rechassis it.
#12 by Mike Mc on July 31, 2013 - 11:08 AM

Does anyone know exactly how a rig would get from special ops to the scene of an incident? Are there people there to drive and operate the apparatus?

Bill: Do you find it ironic that the FDNY adopted what is basically a high pressure hose wagon system within a few years of Chicago disbanding it’s high pressure hose wagon system?

Thanks in adavance for any replies.
#13 by Eric Haak on July 31, 2013 - 10:11 AM

Just a note on the missing wheel. When I blow up the pictures I can see black cranks now instead of the wheel. There are two cranks near the top bend in the gun and another crank where the piping connects to the intake port section. All speculation on my part but these may be the new controls.
#14 by Bill Post on July 31, 2013 - 10:09 AM

It’s good that 671 is at Special Ops. I hope that they keep it there so it can be put it service whenever needed. The worst thing that they can do is to scrap it.
As I had said before the New York City Fire Department runs with 6 large Stang type monitors similar to that found on 671 and they have remounted them several times already. That happens about every 10 years (more or less) whenever they purchase new “Satellite” Hose Wagons upon which they are mounted. The Satellite Hose Wagons are the remnants of the old Super Pumper system that New York City ran from 1965 until 1982. From the mid 70s to 1982 the Super Pumper was basically on standby. Each satellite runs with a 2000-gpm pumper, however all of New York’s engines are being replaced with 2000-gpm pumpers.
#15 by Spoung45 on July 31, 2013 - 9:29 AM

671 is at the special ops warehouse now (from what I have been told)
#16 by NJ on July 31, 2013 - 8:36 AM

BTW, if this is finished they have significantly modified the guns as they no longer have the wheel on them and have oother significant differences from their old look. They are also painted with black tips as opposed to the silver they used to be.
#17 by NJ on July 31, 2013 - 8:31 AM

671 is OOS. AFAIK it’s at Special Ops. If they “need” it, they bring it temporarily back into service.

I too think they should rechassis the guns. Minimal cost to maintain an asset that as we saw less than a year ago is sometimes vital. So vital they resurrected it.
#18 by rja on July 31, 2013 - 7:26 AM

Still wondering whats going to happen to 671. Did they just leave it in service while these two where being built? Or are they planning to scrap the last of the large guns. Bring back big John!!!!!
#19 by NJ on July 30, 2013 - 2:55 PM

I wondered that too. Or the lightbars being used on the new ambos.
#20 by chris on July 30, 2013 - 2:17 PM

i wonder why they didnt use the same light bars as the field chiefs